Wendy Meadows: Forever Is Composed of Nows – Beating Burnout and Redesigning Your Legal Career

What if your legal career didn’t have to feel like a grind, you just survive? In this episode, you’ll learn how to pause time, beat burnout, and intentionally design a solo practice and life that actually fit you.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Wendy Meadows discuss:

• “Forever is composed of nows,” and pausing time
• Journaling, gratitude, and intentionally replaying “yesterday”
• Leaving litigation for mediation and coaching lawyers
• Burnout vs. a career that no longer fits
• Young lawyers, work-life integration, and treating yourself as the CEO

Key Takeaways:

• Being fully present in the “now” moments of your day is how you ultimately shape the career and life you’ll look back on.
• Simple reflection practices like journaling about “what was great about yesterday” can anchor gratitude and reduce the feeling of life rushing by.
• Leaving litigation or a firm isn’t always about hating the work; sometimes it’s about aligning with a role and business model that feels ethical, sustainable, and enjoyable.
• Burnout will recur over a career, but recognizing your personal warning signs and having tools—like movement, boundaries, and intentional scheduling—can shorten its duration and impact.
• Treating yourself as the CEO of your practice (and life) means owning the decisions, direction, and standards, rather than passively letting circumstances or other people steer you.

“The biggest mistake in my business is when I forget that I’m the CEO.” —  Wendy Meadows

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About Wendy Meadows: Wendy S. Meadows is a Maryland-based family law attorney, certified life coach, and mediator who runs the Law Office of Wendy S. Meadows, LLC in Phoenix, Maryland. After graduating cum laude from Franklin & Marshall College in 2002 and the American University Washington College of Law in 2005, she spent years as a traditional family law litigator before intentionally shifting her focus entirely to out-of-court alternative dispute resolutions. Today, her legal practice specializes exclusively in mediation, collaborative law, prenuptial agreements, and parent coordination to help families resolve high-conflict custody and divorce issues with minimal friction. Alongside her law practice, she runs a professional coaching and consulting business called Lawfully Lean—informed by her own experience with professional burnout—where she acts as a strategic coach, author, and speaker helping high-achieving women, lawyers, and firm owners optimize their habits and build sustainable careers.

Connect with Wendy Meadows:

Website: https://www.wendymeadowslaw.com/

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LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Hey everybody, before we get to the show, just want to remind you that the Be That Lawyer community is up and running and rock and rolling. We have a lot of amazing business developer and rainmaking attorneys in there. We’ve got incredible content, courses, live events, and all kinds of ways to help you to be that lawyer. Check it out today at Be That lawyer.com/community. And other than that, please enjoy the show.

 

Narrator  [00:29]

You’re listening to Be That Lawyer: Life-Changing Strategies and Resources for Growing a Successful Law Practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:51]

Everybody, Steve Fretzin here, and welcome to Be That Lawyer. This is the show where you become rich just by listening. You become rich automatically. There’s no nothing else needed to do, you just listen, you sit back, and money flows in. That’s probably not true. I shouldn’t say that, but it is a show that will help you on a journey to becoming that lawyer which is confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. And by the way, for lawyers that are at firms, or even lawyers that are solos, independence, freedom, control, all things that this show does provide, and also for you to just live your best lawyer’s life. So you guys know, if you’ve been listening while I bring on some of the most amazing people for you to meet and get to know, and hopefully to get some great takeaways. And I have the feeling today is going to be no different. I’ve got Wendy in the wings. How are you, Wendy?

 

Wendy Meadows  [01:37]

I am pretty good. How are you doing?

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:38]

Good. Sometimes I say Wendy, and sometimes I say Wendy, and I can’t really help.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:42]

I just, that’s a shirt.

 

Wendy Meadows  [01:43]

I know, like, Wendy is me, like I am Wendy, but everyone called me Wendy growing up, so I introduced, yeah, but my dad’s from Chicago, so maybe that’s why.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:52]

I like this Chicago thing. I hadn’t had Wendy, you know, and my mother was Muriel, and everybody called her Moo moo, so you know what, it could be worse, it’d be worse.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:05]

She never put two and two together, that might have been an insult, but that’s okay. I don’t think I think it was done with affection, it was done with affection,

 

Wendy Meadows  [02:11]

with love, with love.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:13]

Absolutely, absolutely. All right. Well, listen, you have a phenomenal quote, one that we have not heard on the show before, but it really hit home for me. I liked it a lot. And here we go. We’re jumping in. Forever is composed of nows. Emily did. Welcome back to the show. Welcome to the show. And forever is composed of nows. Tell us about that.

 

Wendy Meadows  [02:30]

I love it. So, I don’t know if you can see it with my blurry thing, but I found it blurry.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:33]

But yeah, yeah, we’ve got the whole, the whole poster going.

 

Wendy Meadows  [02:36]

It’s so pretty. Yeah, so I was walking around the beach, like two years ago, with my kiddos like cool little shop, and I saw this quote right here. It stopped me in my tracks. I’m like, this is so cool. And then, when I saw it was by Emily Dickinson, and I was an English major before I was a lawyer, right? And I like did lots of thesis theses on Emily Dickinson, so I was like, well, that’s pretty cool. But I loved it, because it’s everything that I preach, right, which is teaching others, teaching other professionals, especially lawyers, how to slow down and pause time, like that’s a big thing I work on with people, like how do we pause time, and I think it’s just a different way of explaining that, right? But understanding as we go through our day, rather than rush it, rush, rush, like we do, right, but really be cognizant of appreciating the nows and understanding all those little nows create like our forever and create our history and create when we’re looking backwards, we’re not looking backwards. Oh, I work nine to five, not way more than nine to five. Oh, I worked a ton for these last 10 years, but really to help people get intentional on the itty bitty pieces that made them feel amazing or made them be the person who they want to be, right? So I help attorneys reverse engineer creating the now, so then they can have the forever that they look back on. If that makes sense,

 

Steve Fretzin  [03:45]

I’ve got people I know, and I don’t know where I fit in on this, by the way, but that look, they’re always looking ahead to the future, they’re never in the now. I’ve got other people that are always dwelling in the past, and then I’ve got people looking to the side to see what everyone else thinks and is doing, right? So that

 

Wendy Meadows  [04:00]

you’re looking at a

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:02]

car that’s got the cameras on every angle and they’re just showing you every other angle, but the

 

Wendy Meadows  [04:07]

Waymo cars, you know, the Waymo cars, like the self-driving guys, yeah, they’re those, yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:12]

yeah, you’re a Waymo, that’s so interesting, I’m gonna write that down, that’s your

 

Wendy Meadows  [04:15]

Waymo, right? No, but what I like about, well, one of the things I like doing when I do my due diligence, and I journey on all the way I should, and the way I created is looking at yesterday, reminding myself why yesterday was great. Okay, right? Because otherwise we go through so fast, right? But like looking for the day before, like what was great about yesterday, we can always find something, right? Also asking ourselves where we can do better, but when I think when we practice gratitude behind, not just like, oh, I’m grateful for, like, my house, my children, and my dog, but like, really get intentional with the moment. Well, why was yesterday great? Well, I got a beautiful Facetime call with my daughter, right? Or I took the, I left work early, and I went to the soccer game, and blah blah blah blah blah, or like I was super successful in court, but like to have them replay that in. In their mind that video in their mind, yeah, that’s what I like to do.

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:03]

All right, I like that. I like that. I think I just came up with a new idea for an article, so that’s coming up. You are like credit, quit being away. I’ll give you some credit in there. I’m gonna make another, or should I just give credit to the author of the.. that was my evil app. Well, everybody, Wendy Meadows is not only a lawyer, but she’s also a coach working with lawyers to help them be their best versions. And so, give us how you came to be, and how did you decide to go from an English major to law, and then law to working with lawyers on helping them with their lives?

 

Wendy Meadows  [05:36]

Sure, so English major, because I liked reading books, and I found it fun, and I liked writing the papers, and everyone’s like, “Oh, we’re going to be a teacher, right? And I’m like, “No, what are you going to do? I’m like, “I don’t know, you know. This was like 1920, years old, and then I just woke up one day, and I’m going to go to law school, and it just like it all like snapped together one morning. I’m like, “Of course, that’s what I’m going to do, and it will make sense. So I wanted to represent children, and so went to law school. I’ve been a family law attorney now 21 years, which blows my mind that it’s been that long. 2018 I went solo, and about four years ago I said, “No more litigation, I’m done with litigation. It is not my strong.. I don’t want to say it’s not my strong suit, because that’s not true, but it’s not where I prefer to be

 

Steve Fretzin  [06:21]

it’s not enjoy,

 

Wendy Meadows  [06:21]

right? It’s not enjoy, like I love a closing argument, because a closing argument is like those theses, right? It’s the same thing, finding the evidence, putting it together, and like wrapping it all up. I love a closing, I love a direct, because I love helping people share their stories. I don’t particularly like cross, and I don’t like being like I’m a family law attorney, right? I don’t like criticizing another parent for their parenting, when it’s not that bad, right? Like, it feels really, really icky, especially, you know, we’re raising kids, and we’re doing the best we can, and sometimes parents are just doing the best they can, they don’t need to now be like cross-examined about it on the witness stand, just feels growth.

 

Wendy Meadows  [06:56]

Yeah, so that started happening, like, me understanding, like, I just needed to be in that, so in my law practice, I’m in the mediation space. I love family law mediation, that’s the bread and butter of my law practice. I love it, like it’s.. I will never give it up, it’s who I’m supposed to be, but like giving up litigation, you know? I knew I needed another stream of income, and also around that same period of time, I had like a health and wellness business, I started about 10 or 11 years ago, and that kept morphing and morphing and morphing, but now that health wellness business turned into life coaching. I wanted to help other lawyers, because I knew how best. I first started with a burnt out lawyer mom, because I knew how to help her, right? I was walking the same path as her, I was just a couple years ahead of her, and I know what helped me climb out of that burnout hole, so I know I could help her, and that has now morphed into I help attorneys go solo. That’s it. People ask me what I do in the coaching business. It’s mostly people I want to leave my firm, I don’t know how, and I hold their hand from decision making process through the first month of billing. And in that, when I hold them in that container, it’s not just here’s how you set up your business. I mean, that’s a huge part of it, but it’s also mindset and making sure they’re still taking care of themselves and making sure they’re taking care of themselves for the foreseeable future, so it just, I just keep taking the right next step that feels good. I wish I could tell you, I like made this like really amazing plan 10 years ago. I really just kept following the breadcrumbs to what felt the most right and what was asked of me.

 

Steve Fretzin  [08:19]

Are you kind of, I mean, I’m not trying to take us down a rabbit hole, but I mean, are you seeing the next 468, months with big law that there’s going to be some stuff going down where there might be a flood of solos?

 

Wendy Meadows  [08:31]

I don’t know, maybe. I mean, I kind of thought that would happen with the government work, you know, with like all the government people losing jobs, and I saw some solos, but I didn’t see as big of a flood, if I love them,

 

Steve Fretzin  [08:42]

a lot of them attach themselves to firms and went in house. It wasn’t like a flood to solo. Like, yeah, I get that.

 

Wendy Meadows  [08:49]

I saw that too. I think the easiest person to go solo is someone that already has, like, a book of business, and they already have cases they’re working on, and they know these people will follow them, like the family law attorney that wants to go solo, and they, they’ve already done a good job, and they’re just like they don’t want to stay where they are anymore, for a variety of reasons.

 

Wendy Meadows  [09:06]

Yeah, easiest person to go so low, it’s not like they will be making money in two weeks, and they’ll be making more money than they’re used to making in their first month, right? So they just need like some scaffolding, right? They need scaffolding and mindset work and a hand holder, and then they’re off to the races. So it’ll be interesting to see the big firms kind of doing what they’re doing. I would imagine they’ll probably be more spin-off boutiques if I had to have what’s this called,

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:32]

oh, the Magic E Ball,

 

Narrator  [09:33]

the Fortune Teller Ball, Crystal Ball, Crystal Ball,

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:36]

Crystal Ball. I thought you did the thing where you shake it up and it says whatever. There’s a big in the 70s, man. I’ll tell you,

 

Wendy Meadows  [09:42]

they’re fun. They’re fun.

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:44]

Forgot what they say, but anyway, my crystal ball is I’m not gonna remember anything about the 70s or the 80s. So there are people that are considering solo, there are people that are considering maybe that they’re just not really happy where they are, and is it. That they’re unhappy because of where they are, they’re unhappy because maybe they don’t have their own clients, and they don’t have a book of business. What are you seeing out there is a reason why lawyers may be unsatisfied in their careers?

 

Wendy Meadows  [10:11]

Oh, goodness, for so many, a variety. Yeah, one of the themes I see for people wanting to leave big law, right, big law people who are used to making really good money, like 400 plus $1,000 right? And they think that maybe there’s something else out, and then they’re just like burnt out and tired and done, and want to be out of like the politics. I think of a big law firm, and then they want to find their new cool things. They see on Instagram that all these people are living these like bright shiny lives and making bajillions of dollars, like, well, can I just hop from here to here? Can I just do that, and like, not really, you know, it’s not an easy, like, it takes realize all, like, the not the top, but the landing, the runway it takes to get to that big, briny, shiny life, so some of the mindset, just

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:53]

real quick, I mean, a lot of football players want to make the NFL, and a lot of baseball players want to make the major leagues, I mean,

 

Wendy Meadows  [10:58]

right, right,

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:59]

it’s, you’re seeing, you’re seeing the one you know, the point oh 1% that’s making you just killing it, and it’s not necessarily, you know, something easy to do,

 

Wendy Meadows  [11:07]

right. And then, so when I walk down certain paths with them, say, “Okay, well, what about this? What about that? There would be a huge pay cut, and they could make a new limit, you know, but then they would have to drastically,

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:16]

yeah,

 

Wendy Meadows  [11:17]

like change their lifestyle. And then, like, I don’t want to do that, like more often than not, I’m like, okay, then maybe we need to get used to the fact that this is your job, and you are just like, this is your job, and your job is to make money, and your job is to make money for other things that you would really love to do. So, let’s keep the job, but let’s make sure that other parts of your life are matching to what you want it to match to, right? Or some people are taking reduced time, so, like, that’s one theme of people.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:39]

Before you move on to the second theme, I want to add, I want to add something to your theme, which is, you know, it might be that you’re just practicing in an area you’re not happy with, right, or you’re dealing with people in your group that are, you know, terrible people or annoying people, and so maybe it’s not a matter of moving out, it’s a matter of moving around to something, to something, and some, you know, group of people that you actually like, or that are going to give you the kind of work that could be, that could bring out a, you know, a new passion for your career. So, just want to throw that in there, just as another, another idea that it’s not always about leaving, right? It’s sometimes about, can you work internally to figure out a solution?

 

Wendy Meadows  [12:17]

Yeah, so I think sometimes people, too, we just get bored, like after you’ve been doing something for seven years, I think that’s like the track, like seven years, like, okay, I got this. An attorney, like, they’re smart people, like, they want to use their brains, they want to do something new and inventive, and yeah, it might just be the need. I like the idea, though, of just like changing within the firm. And then I would say most of the people I work with is they’re in a smaller, like, boutique firm, they feel unappreciated for the work they do. Put in, they’re never.. there’s not really a clear line of sight for them to be a partner. If they are a partner, it’s a non equity partner, but they don’t really mind. They don’t really want to buy in anyway, but they want something that’s theirs, and they want to do things differently, and they want to not get in trouble for not billing as much as someone tells them they should be billing, right when they know that they’re working as hard as they can, so a lot of those people, I would say it’s moms, it’s moms with littles, and where you know you get called all sorts of, you have to get to the doctor’s appointment, you have to get to the previous school, you have to do this, you have to do that, they’re willing to work their time, but they can’t work crazy hours, but they’re willing to work enough to like form a living for themselves, and that will work in the solo model concept, like they can work enough to feed themselves and their family, and it doesn’t take as much here as it takes in the small firm. So I see that, and just, you know, things get funky in small firms, because in small firms they become families, but then families become like dysfunctional, and then, like, but it’s a business, and then it’s this weird, like, wall of dysfunction, and no one talks about the actual problems.

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:40]

Yeah,

 

Wendy Meadows  [13:41]

you know, because it’s like it’s like lots of elephants in the room, so usually that person, too, is like they just want to start fresh and start somewhere else.

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:48]

I just had a, I had break Brooke Lively on my show not that long ago, and she was, you know, she works with, you know, small firms that have those dysfunctions, and you know, right people in the right seats, or does everybody go on the bus going the right direction, the culture comp clarity, you know, is the owner doing the owner stuff, and how they’re, you know, bringing everybody in, you know, so it’s all like, you know, like run like a business. If you look at any successful business, everybody’s moving, you know, kind of in the right direction and understands the missions and the goals and everything,

 

Wendy Meadows  [14:19]

right?

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:19]

I think that dysfunction is, you know, typically top down, right? It’s the leader being a lawyer and not really understanding that you have to be, you know, a leader, you have to be a manager in many cases, and it’s hard to just like hire people and then just hope that everything works out.

 

Wendy Meadows  [14:36]

And in fairness to them, they don’t teach us this in law school, like

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:40]

it’s been said, it’s been said on this show a few times,

 

Wendy Meadows  [14:42]

but the only thing they teach us in law school, the only real thing, except there’s some law schools that aren’t included in this, because they do a good job, but it’s how to think like a lawyer, and that’s it. They don’t teach us how to practice, they don’t teach us how to actually like file a complaint, do an answer, like how to actually do discovery, and back in the day, when, before we had e5 Like, do the envelopes and send them to the right people, and all of that. Like, law school is amazing at switching our mindset and our brains, but that’s it. They don’t teach us how to practice law, and they don’t teach us, you know, how to run a business. And then I think the thing I see with a lot of people, myself included, at times, right, is forgetting that we’re the CEO. Like, not only are we the managing partner or the sole partner, whatever, but we are the CEO of this business, and we need to stop letting other people make decisions that shouldn’t be making decisions, like we are in charge, and to hold those reins from the beginning. I see a lot of that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:33]

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Wendy Meadows  [17:22]

That’s a good question. So, burnout, like we’re all going to experience burnout, and that will happen again and again. Period. Right? Like, there’s no one is immune from it forever. The idea is, once we start recognizing burnout and using tools to beat it, which we’ll talk about in a moment, the period, like, we recognize it faster, it’s shorter and shorter and shorter in time, and we get over it faster, right? So, like, I would say burnout signs are typically isolation. We isolate ourselves from everybody, but we don’t want to talk to him, we don’t want to go out, we don’t want to hang out, we’re tired, like super tired. For me, my burnout sign is when I start knocking into things, like, legit, like I’ll knock into counters and walls, like, not no drinks, no drinks, or anything like that. I just, like, I can tell, I’m like dropping things, like what is happening, like I’m burnt out, right? So when that happens, like I take a look, okay, what’s going on, what’s going on in my calendar, what can I do for me? Always the first thing is, okay, am I working out as much as I should be? No, okay, Wendy, like getting your fitness regime back, eating healthy again, taking a step back, and like maybe blocking out some time in my calendar, etc. Going back to journaling, being mindful, then I’ll get there, right? Then, like, I get over those humps that burnout, and again, they shorter and shorter and shorter. I think, where it’s the, the set, the ladder. How did you call the gear

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:32]

that no longer fits? It’s just, yeah, it’s.. it may not be just burnout, or maybe it’s causing

 

Wendy Meadows  [18:37]

risk for, I think, pervasive, meaning, like you, for me it was a year, like an entire year of I couldn’t like stomach, like when I had before I left my firm, it was very hard for me, but my hand on the doorknob and turn the knob and walk into the firm, right, like I just like it, like ate at me, and it was, I did it, like I was still like very active, I was still doing all my cases, like everything was great, like mentally I was fine, but it was like that pit in the stomach, like I am not supposed to be here anymore, and I look like, and I can look at that in hindsight and see like role I played, and you know why the firm wasn’t good for me anymore, right? So, but um, where it’s just like a pit in my stomach, not good, and the same thing happened to me with litigation, where it got to the point it just felt gross and icky, and I’m like, it doesn’t matter how much they pay me, I don’t want to do this anymore. So, maybe that would be a good, maybe that’s like a good question. Like, okay, like, you kind of hate this, but if they’ll pay you x amount of $100,000 more, do I still want out? And you say, I still want out, then that’s yeah, that’s a sign, that’s a great

 

Steve Fretzin  [19:38]

test. I mean, people could take that right now. You think about, you know, how, if you’re unhappy in your role, you know, how much money would it take for you to, you know, either be happy or to stay, or to, or just to deal with it. Look, you know, I’m unhappy, but I’m making 200,000 more than I should be, and then that, that’s the price of unhappiness. I, my take is similar to your point, like, I, if somebody paid. Me, you know, double or triple what I, what I make on my own to go back and even not be unhappy, just go and work for someone else. I would

 

Wendy Meadows  [20:08]

probably

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:09]

say no, right? Because I’m at a stage where I’m so entrepreneurial, like you, and I just, how do you go back? How do you put the toothpaste back in the tube? And I don’t.. I’m also at a point where, like, I make a live, I make a great living. I’m like, become a professional saver for some reason. I just don’t value stuff like I think did them in my 30s, and but ultimately I’m just so happy in my life, and you know, I saved for my kids’ college. I’ve got a great, you know, townhouse and a beautiful area, Chicago. Like, I don’t need a private jet, that’s the only thing that, like, and I don’t even like, I like to stay home, I don’t even want to travel, travel three, four times a year, like, I’m happy doing that, so, like, what is money then? What is it? What is that buying me,

 

Wendy Meadows  [20:50]

right, exactly? But I think, about, you know, like, Elon has, what, like, what does this, like, a true, the first trillionaire, million, and, and he would have to spend like a million dollars a minute to use up all his money, I’m like, but, but just like, yeah, I know, not lawyers,

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:10]

it’s, it’s, I think that, especially the younger, the younger generation coming up, millennials and the Z, I think they sort of, even though we don’t get them all the time, or I don’t get them all the time. As an ex, I get what they’re saying. They’re saying life is short. Let’s not just be a sin to the job, and let’s not just make money and grind away for 20 years and be unhappy. Like that makes a lot of sense. And also, being said, there’s a job to be done, and somebody put in some time to do it, so it’s a little bit of a rub there, but

 

Wendy Meadows  [21:43]

right,

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:44]

I love.. I don’t like, you know, people talk about life work balance. I think we all know that’s kind of not a thing anymore, but there’s like maybe life work integration or life work, you know, maintenance,

 

Wendy Meadows  [21:55]

right? I think it redefines itself every day, right? So with work life balance, you know, and I think it, it exists, but it doesn’t exist, like it’s always perfect, and it always looks the same. It’s just like your definition for that day. But before I get there with the millennials, I agree, I see the same thing, like they’re so smart in making sure they are carving out that time for themselves, which is fantastic, but like when bosses will say to them, or when I work with a managing partner, like we need more out of this person. Look, we’ll give you a raise if you can build as many more hours, and we’ll pay you this much more money. And there they say no. So the managing partners are like, well, what are we supposed to do? Like, we need more hours work to get these cases done. They, these, the millennials are choosing, I’ll just make it, I don’t care. It’s this really weird, I think, juxtaposition we’re in, like, in terms of,

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:39]

but it goes, it goes back to going earlier, Wendy. It’s a business, and if I’m trying to produce 100 widgets an hour, and I’m only producing 60, and I know that I can’t make money unless I produce 100 then I got to find someone that’s going to produce 100 right? I mean,

 

Narrator  [22:55]

it’s hard.

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:55]

The thing that thing is, like, lawyers also, they could have a some firms have this, but not that many that I know of, where somebody doesn’t want to work, you know, the full 5060 hours a week. Fine, if that’s not you want to work your 35 hours, you’ll get paid 35 hours, you’re going to make, you know, a third less than everybody else, but you’ll not, you’ll have that, you know, that life, but that life balance, just know that I think not going to be making as much as everybody else,

 

Wendy Meadows  [23:21]

but I think the thing that is being like lost from the conversation, at least when I go back and think about my old first days of working, right, my first five years I worked like a dog, I worked all the time, like I was barely making any money, I didn’t care, I just like I wanted to prove myself, I wanted to show as a hard worker, and I don’t want so often people say they like this generation just wants that generation to do it too, because we did it, and we’re trying to make them do the same thing. And I don’t think that’s what it is. It’s also think about just the hours I put in in those first five years of working, I put in more hours, I put in more reps, I gained more knowledge, so I was able to progress faster. I made partner in five years because I worked my butt off, right? But it’s not even just the becoming partner, it’s just I became a better lawyer faster because I was doing more, like in a shorter amount of time. So it’s I think that part of the conversation gets lost, and also like in those first five years too, like the millennials, they have, or I don’t even know, millennials anymore, Daniels, but they have time to like network and go out and go to the events before they have a family. So one of my other careers, too. I’m an adjunct professor at University of Baltimore. Is I’m telling you, know my young, my students, I’m like, now is the time. The nurse, the first five years, like, I’m not saying to work like a crazy person, but this is your time to get it done before you start your family. So then, when you have your family, you can take a step back, because you’ve put in your reps early,

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:39]

yeah?

 

Wendy Meadows  [24:39]

And they go to the events, right? So I think that part gets lost.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:43]

Yeah, you’re spot on. And I would, I would add to that, you know, maybe selfishly in the space that I’m in, but you know, if you’re, you know, college student for second year, invest in some time to learn business development, marketing, branding, the start room. Looking at your relationships, building a book of business, do it in your 30s, because the people that are in their late 40s and 50s, they’re the ones that work their ass off, and now they can’t stop working their ass off, because they’ve got 12 bosses, they’ve got five partners feeding them, and another seven clients telling them what to do, so if you can build your book in your late 20, you know, late 20s, early 30s, and just start getting going with it, and get some momentum. That’s going to take a lot of pressure off, because now you got a half a million million dollar book, you’re 35 years old, right? And now the next years, you can get that up to a million plus, and then you’re not going to have to necessarily work as many hours as someone who doesn’t happily book a business.

 

Wendy Meadows  [25:44]

Well, it’s like they’re it’s investing in themselves, right? Like, invest in yourself now. It’s the same thing as dividends. Like, invest in yourself now, and it will pay off in the future. You just, right? Agree to agree, right? But making sure, like, if we have, like, young, young lawyers listen to this, like, well, my boss is terrible, and they’re not doing this, and they’re not like investing themselves in the right firm, making sure they’re getting the right kind of work, and making sure that their bosses are allowing them to run with things when it’s time, right? Because I know some attorneys who have associates, and the associates are always second chair at trial, they never get to have their own case, they never get to like go and do their own thing, like I was chomping at the bit to do my own thing early, and I had a great mentor, right, who let me, like, she got out, like, she’s like, the thing I know about Wendy is, you let her do something and you get out of her way, like, awesome, but she recognized that in me, right,

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:32]

all right, I got two more questions for you, this one is just, you know, a small change that you can suggest for overwhelmed lawyers that are listening that would have like meaningful improvement in their performance and happiness. What are you mentioned like earlier, journaling, and you mentioned I’m trying to remember what else you mentioned, taking a lot of drugs. No, you didn’t mention that you left that one out. No, but what are some things that would, that would help improve that performance and happiness for the stress

 

Wendy Meadows  [26:59]

this month? So, when, and it’s easy, like it’s easy, ish, when they wake up, as soon as you wake up in the morning, before you reach for your phone, before you do anything else, you think of, okay, what would make today great, right, like, or who do I need to be today, and they do a scan of their day, and maybe it’s a hearing, maybe it’s something with their kid, maybe it’s like dinner that night with their spouse, whatever it is, just thinking of like the big event of the day, what’s going to require most of their attention, and then to decide who they want to be in that moment, come up with the adjective, so if it’s court, this is one of mine, like I am unwavering, is my last trial, the last custody trial I had, and I had a saucy piece of evidence I wanted again, I am unwavering, right, or if I was going like to be spending time with my children, like I’m an attentive mommy who does not yell stuff, or like whoever, like just really thinking about who the kind of person we want to be in that moment. So when that moment comes, we’re like, oh yeah, this is who I want to be. It goes back to the beginning, like this is how I teach people how to pause time, literally, like if you, when you’ve already planned for and ran like the video in your head, it’s like the whole world, like kind of pauses a little bit, and you decide, oh, this is why I already was here, I know who I want to be, and like, once we are that person in that moment, we like, then we also go back to the next day, well, why was yesterday great? Well, it was great because I was this person, the moment, and I got to like make that now that is composed of mine forever, right? And then that’s what I think, like, helps reduce the burnout, like, when we know we’re focused on that one thing, we are who are going to be at least in that moment, like, then we can, like, have the green check mark of the day. Okay, I accomplished what I said I was going to accomplish, and that’s,

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:32]

I think, you’re true, what you’re saying is, you got to, you’re training your brain by saying it out loud or saying it in your head of what it’s going to be, and then you know that’s you’re just sort of like predicting the future out loud or whatever, and then it’s like when people you know dwell in their pain, well, they have pain when people say that’s just my pain, and they can kind of sometimes separate themselves from it. There’s just a lot of psychology around how we feel, and and what’s what’s real and what sort of imagined, and I love all that. Last question, what’s Wendy’s big mistake?

 

Wendy Meadows  [29:05]

Oh gosh, I’ve made a few. I’ve made a few. I think my big mistake is all the mistakes I’ve learned from, right? So, like, are they both big? But the biggest mistake is in my business is when I forget that I’m the CEO, right? So, when I’ve hired certain people, like either my vert, like my virtual assistants for social media, or my assistant here at the law practice, or whoever, and once like things are rocking and rolling, and we’re good, I sometimes take off the CEO hat. I’m like, oh, they’re good, they’re in their lane, because I hate micromanaging. I am the least micromanaging person in the world, but I need one of the things I’m still like actively working on is a nope. When do you like, you can make micromanaging and CEOing are different, right? But you still get to be in charge of the directions where you want it to go, and like your future planning and the end goal, right? So I think my big mistake is forgetting I’m the CEO and. Various facets of my life, and like getting it back.

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:03]

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Well, let’s take a moment. Thicker incredible sponsors, rankings IO. If you’re a PI firm and you’re looking to drive a tremendous amount of business, and you’re going to want to talk to my friend Chris over at Rankings. Also, Pimcon coming up in October, Top Notch Personal Injury Mastermind conference, lawyer.com If you’re not being found, you need to get on lawyer.com And, of course, Lex reception. Should you be answering your phone, Wendy? No, no, you’re supposed to know. I trained you before you went on. No, but no. Come on, let’s.. let’s.. you know, somebody’s calling you at 10 at night, they got a big problem, you know, it’s a divorce question, you don’t pick up, or somebody pick it up for you.

 

Wendy Meadows  [30:44]

No,

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:44]

people want to find out more about you, Wendy. They want to talk to you about going solo, they want to talk to you about burnout, they want to utilize you as a coach, life coach. Um, you don’t know, you had a lot of hats there, by the way. Congratulations,

 

Wendy Meadows  [30:56]

a lot of hats, a lot of hats, you’re still, you’re

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:00]

juggling hats. What are the best digits? How do we get in touch with you?

 

Wendy Meadows  [31:04]

I would say LinkedIn. I would say go on LinkedIn, find me over there, send me a message. You know, there is on Wendy S meadows.com Don’t forget the S if you go there, there you can click on the top and like jump right on my calendar for a 30 minute call. Same with LinkedIn, but I’d say that’s the easiest probably place to find me, but just make sure you do the s because there is another Wendy Meadows, but she’s like a romantic, cozy author person, so and that is, yeah, and we share like the first couple pages of Google, like it kind of goes back between me and her, me and her stuff, yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:35]

don’t drop the yes, right,

 

Wendy Meadows  [31:36]

don’t drop the s.

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:37]

Well, fantastic. Well, thanks for coming on the show. I got a lot out of this today. I mean, whether it’s thoughts about your career, and thoughts about burnout, and thoughts about, just like, you know, again, we just, we all, we all want to live this great life. I’m someone who believes, you know, you get one shot at this thing. Let’s not, let’s not play around. I mean, let’s have fun, but let’s not stay in a career too long. Let’s not, you know, wait too long to do something important, and let’s leave, leave a mark, you know, where, where we will be done. So

 

Wendy Meadows  [32:05]

I have two musicals in my head now. I have Hamilton and Greatest Showman now playing in my head simultaneously.

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:11]

What for my space at the end of the show? Yes, yeah, yeah,

 

Wendy Meadows  [32:15]

you know,

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:16]

two gray ones, two gray ones,

 

Wendy Meadows  [32:17]

right? Right. Well, so thank you so

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:19]

much, I appreciate you, and, and, and let’s make sure we get you back soon, okay?

 

Wendy Meadows  [32:24]

Sounds great. Thank you.

 

Steve Fretzin  [32:25]

Yeah, you got it. And thank you, everybody, for hanging out with Wendy and I for the last 30 minutes, helping you to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and that skilled rainmaker. Take care, and be safe, and well, and all of that jazz. Talk to you later. Bye. Steve,

 

Narrator  [32:42]

thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com, for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.