Merry Neitlich: Mastering Legal Branding From Taglines to Revenue Generation

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Merry Neitlich discuss:

• Challenges in legal marketing
• Importance of branding in law firms
• Evolving marketing techniques
• Integration of branding with business development

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers often misunderstand branding as a tagline, but effective branding requires a deep dive into what makes their services unique and meaningful to clients.
• Without integrating marketing and business development efforts, even the best branding will not drive results, as lawyers must raise visibility through thought leadership and client engagement.
• Short-form videos and data-driven social media strategies are increasingly important, with platforms like LinkedIn promoting interactive content that boosts engagement.
• One of the major obstacles to effective marketing and branding is lawyers’ lack of time, which can be mitigated by using outsourcing and automation for content creation and promotion.

“A lot of lawyers think having a tagline like ‘excellent experience wisdom’ would be great, but that doesn’t differentiate them from the person who cleans your pool or the plumber.” —  Merry Neitlich

Read Steve’s past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

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Episode References: 

The Ultimate Sales Revolution by Steve Lishansky: https://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Sales-Revolution-Differently-Change/dp/1599325519

About Merry Neitlich: For 25 years, Merry Neitlich has been assisting law firms to drive revenue by creating unique brands with unusual and deep differentiation. She then applies this clearly branded messaging to each client’s website and social media platforms. Once the brand essence is clearly created, Merry develops unique and sustainable business development opportunities for her clients.

Merry, a founding partner of EM Consulting, frequent speaker, and author, was inducted into the Legal Marketing Association Hall of Fame in 2017 and is also an accomplished figure skater with multiple national titles.

Connect with Merry Neitlich:

Website: https://emconsults.org/

Email: merry@emconsults.org

Phone: 949-260-0936

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/merryneitlich/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey listeners, I know you’re getting a ton of amazing tips from our expert guests here on the show, but keeping track of them can be a challenge. I know that. That’s why I’ve created Blogcasts, the perfect way to capture the best insights from every episode. Each Blogcast condenses an entire show into a two page summary packed with key takeaways that you can apply right away.

[00:00:21] Steve Fretzin: Head over to Fretzin. com slash blog to start reading, learning, and taking action. Let these blog casts help you on your journey to be that lawyer with Fretzin. Now, enjoy the show

[00:00:35] Narrator: You’re listening to be that lawyer life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice Each episode your host author and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin Will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results Now, here’s your host Steve Fretzin 

[00:00:56] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, welcome back, it’s Steve Fretzin with the Be that lawyer podcast.

[00:01:01] Steve Fretzin: I hope you’re having a lovely day today. We are back every week, twice a week to make sure you’re getting everything you need to be that lawyer. Someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Oh, I ran out of breath. I got halfway through it. I ran out of breath. It’s organized, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker.

[00:01:16] Steve Fretzin: That’s what I was trying to get out. I’m going to try breathing and see if that works better. How about that? Is that a pretty good idea, Mary, breathing? 

[00:01:22] Merry Neitlich: Yeah, it’s always a good idea. Oxygen is very useful. 

[00:01:25] Steve Fretzin: Yes. I’m going to try that moving forward for the rest of this interview and see what happens. Always happy to have you guys checking out the show.

[00:01:31] Steve Fretzin: And again, if you’re a fan, please tell people about it. Give us a kind review on your phone, Amazon review or not Amazon review app. Oh, wait a second. I think my brain’s fried. It’s an Apple review for crying out loud. All right. Well, it is at the end of the day. My father had a thing. He, his brain didn’t work after 8 PM.

[00:01:47] Steve Fretzin: I think mine might be at 3 PM. So there you go, but I’ve had like, I’ve had like eight meetings today. So just. We’re going to get through this and we’re going to have some fun, even if it means that I’m going to be a moron or a monkey for a little bit. That’s okay. Let’s start off with our quote of the show.

[00:02:00] Steve Fretzin: This is the famous Mary Angelou. People may not remember what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel. That’s been, that’s been like a show, a show oldie but goodie. We love that quote. 

[00:02:12] Merry Neitlich: Oh, other people love her as much as I do. I think 

[00:02:14] Steve Fretzin: it’s a pretty popular quote. I don’t think you’re alone in appreciation of that, of that particular quote, but why is it?

[00:02:20] Steve Fretzin: First of all, welcome to the show, Mary. Welcome back. This is your second, I think your second time. And why is that? Why is that quote so near and dear to your heart? 

[00:02:27] Merry Neitlich: Well, the first thing is I got to see Maya Angelou in person at a legal marketing association conference about maybe 15 years ago. 

[00:02:35] Steve Fretzin: Okay. 

[00:02:36] Merry Neitlich: And I started reading all of her books and her poems.

[00:02:40] Merry Neitlich: And her quotes, and I think that that’s, it just rung true with me. It rang true, sorry, with me. Because it’s true. You know, you remember how people made you feel. You might not remember the details of a conversation, but people are rude to you. It doesn’t matter what they said. You remember that, you know, the person who’s rude to the waiter, you know, no matter what they say to you, you, you get the sense.

[00:03:03] Merry Neitlich: So it’s genuine. 

[00:03:05] Steve Fretzin: I think I remember more bad things than good things. Maybe that’s just the psychology of it. Like if somebody’s like super rude to a waiter, like you were saying, that might be much more memorable to me than someone who is like extraordinarily generous or nice to a waiter, just as a random example.

[00:03:19] Merry Neitlich: Right. I would notice that too. You know, how people treat each other. But yeah. I think it’s just the concept of having, when you, when you’re with someone and they’re connecting with you and with you and ask and care about you, you just remember that feeling much more so than the specific topic, in my opinion, I, I agree with Ms.

[00:03:37] Merry Neitlich: Angela. 

[00:03:38] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Well, there you go. There we go. So everybody we’re here with Mary Knight. Like she’s back for a second time. She didn’t get enough from me the first time. So she said she’s got more to say, more to share. And I, and I agreed wholeheartedly. She’s the founder and managing partner of EM consulting.

[00:03:53] Steve Fretzin: So give us a little bit of your background again, just to remind people kind of where, where you are in the, in the space and how you’re working with lawyers and law firms. 

[00:04:02] Merry Neitlich: Sure. Well, I’ve been a law firm marketing consultant for almost 30 years, and I kind of got into it when there wasn’t even such a thing.

[00:04:09] Merry Neitlich: Lawyers were just able to start advertising. And. Because I was a marketing professional ahead of time, it it helped me to help the lawyers who were just really struggling, even with things like, if I switch firms, how do I take my book of business? There was no advertising or marketing and it was reputation of the law firms.

[00:04:28] Merry Neitlich: And so things have morphed and it’s for me, the excitement has been how everything has changed over the years because websites came out and branding and then. Lawyers scoffed at that and, and social media lawyers scoffed at that. Now, I think there’s general acceptance that genuine relationships are really important, but the visibility raising things to enhance that are really important as well.

[00:04:52] Steve Fretzin: How, how much advertising has changed and marketing has changed. My father, the late great Larry, the lawyer Fretzin put an ad in the Chicago daily law bulletin with his partners when one of his, his his suite mates died at his desk. And they just said, Hey, we’re going to take a half a day and, and you know, memory of this, of this, you know, fallen comrade and whatever.

[00:05:12] Steve Fretzin: And he got cited, they was like, you know, they, they basically the ERDC was notified and all that. So, you know, things have changed quite a bit where now we’ve got the billboards and the TV and the radio and everything in between. So it’s, it’s an exciting time for lawyers to be able to really, you know, get out there and hustle to build business.

[00:05:30] Steve Fretzin: And and we’re going to talk about that. So, Well, let’s start off with, with why lawyers suck at marketing and branding, and I don’t mean to be rude, but they’re generally pretty bad at it. So what’s what’s your take on that? 

[00:05:43] Merry Neitlich: Well, the first piece is that most of them don’t understand actually what branding can do or how it can differentiate.

[00:05:50] Merry Neitlich: A lot of lawyers think having a tagline like excellent experience, wisdom. Would be a great tagline, but that doesn’t differentiate them from the person who cleans your pool or the person who’s the plumber. So, understanding that branding is a deep die when I do brand development with the law firm or a lawyer, individual lawyer, we spend literally hours.

[00:06:12] Merry Neitlich: Looking, asking, answering questions that I ask. To really understand how they practice, what they do, how they deliver services, their practice areas, how they interface with clients, and pull together something that’s quite unique and differentiating, because then you take to social media, blogging your website, and that brand is on every single page of everything you do, it’s not just a slogan, right?

[00:06:36] Merry Neitlich: A tagline is actually a differentiator. 

[00:06:38] Steve Fretzin: So is it, it’s the, it’s the, the lack of ability of them to come up with something unique or different about themselves or their firm. That’s, that’s probably a big part of their issue with, with, with doing excellent branding. 

[00:06:53] Merry Neitlich: Well, that’s an interesting question, Steve, because it’s a different expertise.

[00:06:58] Merry Neitlich: I’m an intellectual property lawyer, but I’m not a brand specialist. You know, a lawyer might say. And a lot of times lawyers, you know, have that marketing genius mentality where we can come up with a tagline and they just pull together these words that don’t really differentiate or have meaning for them.

[00:07:14] Merry Neitlich: Recently in branding and doing the new website for a law firm, Arc IP law, they are so unique and different in how they deliver their services and their experiences and the kinds of things they’ve done and the publicity they’ve gotten. And that was not evident at all in their old website. It just was very bland and blah, blah.

[00:07:34] Merry Neitlich: And now it’s filled with rich examples. 

[00:07:37] Steve Fretzin: And is it, does it come down to two, I mean, my, my, my take, and I’m no branding expert it creeps into my world here and there. It’s not just about what makes them unique. It also has to also match with what people care about. So if I say that I’ve got something really unique about my business, but no one seems to care about that uniqueness, it doesn’t impact them or make them feel good or make them feel like they want to do business with me.

[00:08:02] Steve Fretzin: So how do you pull the two together? Because people can say. They’re unique because they do XYZ, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to connect with the audience. 

[00:08:11] Merry Neitlich: Right. Like I make great pizza. So I’m a good lawyer. Right. To be very honest with you, my process is called turning the telescope and we look inward into the firm and the person.

[00:08:21] Merry Neitlich: We don’t look at what the marketplace says. We look at how they differentiate and it’s to attract the kind of clients. So we’re about to launch, for example, a new website for a 40 year term firm here in Orange County called Feruzo Feruzo. And it’s an old firm, and their old brand was rooted in relationships, but since those gentlemen retired that were Feruzo Feruzo, they are completely more firm with more practice areas, the way they involve their clients in the process of developing solutions and they educate their clients.

[00:08:58] Merry Neitlich: And when you dig deep into all that, that’s throughout their website, you’re out there, social media, their blogs, you get a crystal clear idea. So, we didn’t go to clients to say, what are you looking for, but we rather find out how they differentiate and the way they deliver their services. They don’t have extensive onboarding processes, you can talk right to a partner.

[00:09:21] Merry Neitlich: Those are things that they do and because of that they attract clients looking for that kind of connection. 

[00:09:27] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. It’s what, it’s what those, their clients care about and it also matches up in what, what they’re actually producing. 

[00:09:36] Merry Neitlich: Right. All right. So people brand by looking at the marketplace, right? Like, what is the marketplace?

[00:09:40] Merry Neitlich: But that, I don’t feel that that really captures the essence. That’s how we do it. 

[00:09:45] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Okay. So is there some confusion? And if so, can you dispel there’s, you know, obviously people get, you know, business development and marketing confused. We’re not going to go down that road, but you have marketing, you have branding, and then you have like what you said earlier, a tagline.

[00:10:01] Steve Fretzin: How do you sort of define those and differentiate between those, because people could say branding is marketing, a tagline is branding, like people are using all these buzzwords that may not be accurate as far as how they’re actually being used for a law firm or a law firm’s website and their, their, their outbound, you know, content.

[00:10:19] Steve Fretzin: It’s 

[00:10:19] Merry Neitlich: a great, it’s a great concept and a great question. I define it very simply. Marketing is everything that you do when you’re not face to face. So it could be social media, it could be delivering a speech, it could be, the business development is after the speech when you get face to face with people.

[00:10:37] Merry Neitlich: So marketing is trying to raise visibility and reinforce what the brand stands for through various mediums. And business development is when you connect and get one on one. So, for example, I might call you, Steve, and get a quote for an article that I’m writing. Well, that will help raise visibility, but it’s also business development because I have now contacted you about this entertainment area of the law, and people get to see what you do, and you’re now feeling good that I included you.

[00:11:05] Merry Neitlich: I had an opportunity this morning to do this. I got a call from a reporter. They needed some quotes for private equity and one of the clients I was working with are just experts on this and I got to connect them and so I, I wasn’t doing it as a business development thing. They’re already my client, but it sure reinforced the relationship that I was like, Oh, they would be perfect for the interview and the client’s happy.

[00:11:26] Merry Neitlich: The reporter’s happy. 

[00:11:28] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s more, that’s more client loyalty, right? Developing more loyalty through excessive giving and beyond the. The the matter at hand so that we’ve got the definition of marketing. What about branding? What’s the definition of branding from you from your standpoint? 

[00:11:43] Merry Neitlich: Branding is just creating a clear differentiation That depicts what it is that you stand for and what you do That’s why I say I don’t look out to the marketplace.

[00:11:54] Merry Neitlich: I look into the particular firm so I can give you a concrete example A lawyer his name is david wood retired from an am law 100 firm And the last 2 years while he was working to retire his law firm Barnes and Thornburg had a process where the compensation allowed him to spend 2 years transitioning that business to the next generation of partners.

[00:12:19] Merry Neitlich: Making those partners happy, keeping the clients happy, because it wasn’t like I’m leaving tomorrow here to start working with, you know, Joan. And he decided to turn this into a business, and how he’s now consulting with law firms to help them successfully transition, because law firms have a great deal of issues about doing this.

[00:12:39] Merry Neitlich: They kind of, you know, well, we can, you know, if Mark retires and his clients don’t come, we’ll get new ones. Well, it’s getting to the point where. We need to keep those clients to continue to grow the firm. And so his brand is about how to do that. That’s, that’s what he stands for. We spent a great deal of time refining.

[00:12:58] Merry Neitlich: He delivers the how of succession retirement, not just the, yeah, you should do this. 

[00:13:04] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Fantastic. And then the tagline is something catchy that 

[00:13:08] Merry Neitlich: finally the how of succession retirement. 

[00:13:11] Steve Fretzin: Okay. 

[00:13:12] Merry Neitlich: Yeah, I’m glad you asked for that. Yeah. That ties that together. So the taglines are meaningful, right? You know what he does when you look at that tagline.

[00:13:20] Merry Neitlich: He’s not just yet one more consultant saying, you should have succession planning, because there are a lot of consultants that have been talking about succession planning for years. He’s the only one I know of that’s differentiate that says, I’m going to show you how to do this. Clients are starting to demand it.

[00:13:35] Merry Neitlich: And so he’s helping these law firms ahead of the curve. They want to know what happens, you know, get hit by a bus or somebody retires unexpectedly. And you’re like, The clients don’t want to start looking for a new firm, a new lawyer. They like the firm and the lawyer. They having this process in place ensures business continuity.

[00:13:53] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So a firm makes an investment in finding a brand, working with you, figuring it all out. But how does that actually drive revenue? How does that make them money is ultimately that’s what they’re going to want to know. 

[00:14:07] Merry Neitlich: So the way it happened for David Wood, for example, was once the press got a hold of this, he, in the past 10 months, He has been written articles for American Lawyer Media, four other major national publications.

[00:14:22] Merry Neitlich: He’s been invited to speak on five podcasts and it’s snowballing because what he was, we got that message out to the community and to the reporters and to the publication. And now he’s getting clients because they’re seeing, I mean, he got a phone call just out of the blue because people have seen his work written.

[00:14:45] Merry Neitlich: He’s using a lot of social media, specifically LinkedIn. And involves, you know, managing partners, general counsel, gets quotes from them, and is really talking about it a different way than it’s ever been spoken about before. So he’s getting business because of that. 

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[00:15:45] Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Man, I thought I was a good marketer, but maybe not. Lawyers have been approaching me asking, what’s the Rainmakers Roundtable? Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers. To continue their journey of prosperity, our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year.

[00:16:06] Steve Fretzin: Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shop with America’s top rainmakers, please go to my website, Brettson. com and apply for membership today. So someone creates a brand or has some help creating a brand. And it doesn’t do anything for them, like they put the time and the money and the effort into it, and it’s not working, it’s not getting them the traction, why not?

[00:16:31] Steve Fretzin: What, what are they missing that we haven’t talked about yet? Because I feel like there’s something more that needs to come out, you can’t just like, you know, if you build it, they will come, there’s more that you have to do. 

[00:16:42] Merry Neitlich: Oh, oh, that’s, that’s a brilliant way to put it. And a lot of law firms do build it and then no one comes.

[00:16:48] Merry Neitlich: So, you have to connect the two. You have to connect the brand with your marketing. As I said, that’s everything you’re doing to raise visibility, but also with your business development efforts, there has to be a connection. And a lot of times lawyers just get a fancy tagline, but they don’t do anything with it.

[00:17:08] Merry Neitlich: It’s about thought leadership on social media. It’s about understanding that blogs are not just, you know, my partner spoke at this conference, but give me some information about what’s different in employment law. What’s happening? How do I know you’re an expert? So, and, and then again, involve clients, referral sources, and other experts in the industry.

[00:17:32] Merry Neitlich: So that you can tie other experts with yourself. You know, advertising can be helpful. Google AdWords used to be helpful, but not so much anymore. Things are morphing, and social media is morphing. If we have a chance, we can talk about that. But it’s understanding how to integrate social media with the content and be that thought leader.

[00:17:53] Merry Neitlich: You can’t just Have the tagline and say, why is the phone not ringing? And I get asked that question too many times. 

[00:17:59] Steve Fretzin: Well, I don’t, I don’t have a problem segwaying into what law firms need to do and lawyers need to do to take advantage of a great brand that they’ve built and created. So social media, obviously I’ve got, I’ll just bring me into this for a moment, podcast, books, articles, videos, right?

[00:18:21] Steve Fretzin: All of these things that I’m producing. That’s the marketing, right? That reinforces the, The brand, the be that lawyer brand. Okay. That’s exactly right. Or the fret brand. You do great. 

[00:18:30] Merry Neitlich: You do a great job of integrating that. You bring in professionals, other people who are experts. You don’t say I have all the answers to every aspect, but you know, I teach classes, I teach you how to market, and then I coach you.

[00:18:43] Merry Neitlich: I understand your brand so clearly from other consultants and. It’s a matter of tying all of those pieces together that brand is it’s why I’m saying a brand has to really be a Differentiator and then you have to live and pay off that brand with everything. 

[00:18:59] Steve Fretzin: Yeah 

[00:19:00] Merry Neitlich: And so it’s got 

[00:19:01] Steve Fretzin: to be a but it’s really got to be something the firm or the individual lawyer buys into and and Takes action upon it can’t just be You know, hey, I built it and now, and now just, you know, again, waiting for the phone to ring.

[00:19:11] Steve Fretzin: So what’s the, what’s the, the play, how do people get started developing the marketing around the brand? 

[00:19:19] Merry Neitlich: Well, I think it’s very simple. I think you have to decide you’re going to have a lot of brand ambassadors in your firm. So you’re going to have other lawyers in your firm that understand the brand and have a plan so that if the firm makes a post on social media, that the lawyers know they can repost it with a comment or a thought.

[00:19:36] Merry Neitlich: If somebody is speaking at a conference, it’s fine to promote that, but talk a little bit about that content, tie it into it. As I mentioned, social media is changing AI has impacted social media. What I don’t think most lawyers understand and most professionals, service providers, is AI content in and of itself.

[00:20:01] Merry Neitlich: I think a lot of us are like, you know, you have to kind of edit it and make it custom. But what’s happened now, this big shift that’s just starting to happen, is a very few high level social media people will tie in your blogs, With short form videos, which are very popular and they then use AI statistics and analytics not to write content, but to see who’s who is it impacting.

[00:20:28] Merry Neitlich: I’ve used these words in this blog or in this social media post. And we’ve got this audience and it’s not just necessarily linked in anymore. Instagram and tick tock if they want to do that. So you have to understand, I, I mean, going into the details of how social media marketing has changed is really important.

[00:20:49] Merry Neitlich: And I can connect you with this gentleman right now who’s doing this and making tremendous inroads. So you want to build that trust. It’s kind of like the adage we have in provisors, no like, trust, and refer, but doing that through marketing, through social media marketing and interaction with clients and using AI to figure out which of these phrases, which of these words, which of these pieces of content are what people are actually really looking for.

[00:21:17] Merry Neitlich: Google AdWords used to be very productive. I have a client that was getting a lot of business from Google AdWords, their family law firm. Not so much this year because they keep changing it and short form videos are now in meaning 10 15 20 second videos that are vertical LinkedIn for example is really promoting that so you have to stay on top of the changes And you have to stay true to your brand 

[00:21:44] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and i’m assuming that there’s a number of obstacles to success One of them is probably going to be apathy and lack of action But what are you seeing as the reasons why people aren’t successful Building a brand and marketing it, 

[00:21:58] Merry Neitlich: Inconsistency and apathy and busyness.

[00:22:01] Merry Neitlich: So lawyers are very busy. And so sometimes are they though? 

[00:22:05] Steve Fretzin: No, they are just everyone is, I mean, one’s busier than the next. It’s like, it’s like wrangling kittens, 

[00:22:11] Merry Neitlich: right? And I completely understand that, but you can have workarounds. You can have people help you to write some content for you or get interesting articles to supplement, but nothing takes the place.

[00:22:24] Merry Neitlich: So this particular gentleman I was alluding to. Who is doing this new type of marketing on social media, spends an hour and a half interviewing you, and he sends a halo light, and microphones, and gets all this information, and uses it, and then uses AI to figure out what to promote, and uses the same content in different ways, and edits these videos, keywords, and logos, and branding information.

[00:22:52] Merry Neitlich: So things are morphing and changing. We can’t just sit back and say, you know, I’m going to have my marketing person, you know, write all our social media. And if the lawyer is willing to spend that hour, hour and a half being videoed, we can use those short form videos in a new way to pay off the brand, pay off your expertise, and then use AI to figure out how we’re building trust with certain words and make sure we continue.

[00:23:17] Merry Neitlich: That’s, that’s what shifted. So it would be a less time consuming initiative for the lawyer. They just have to do that initial series of interviews and then it takes off. It’s remarkable. 

[00:23:29] Steve Fretzin: I love, I love the concept and I’m doing that a little bit for my clients where I’m just taking like a quick 15 minute interview, create five or six clips, shorts for them and just say, Hey, you know, you’re afraid to post on social media.

[00:23:42] Steve Fretzin: Let me help you with this. It’s not complicated. Like you keep saying it’s, it isn’t. Let’s, let me ask you a few good questions about what your clients love about you. What are the top three questions you get asked about personal injury? You know, and, and just, let’s just, and we’ll break it up into pieces.

[00:23:57] Steve Fretzin: There’s all kinds of automations that do that for you. So it’s not high in the editing like you don’t have to spend a lot of time and energy on editing and it’s good enough. Like it’s not, nothing has to be a three camera shoot anymore. It’s just what’s good enough. But I think, but I think it’s just getting started is probably half the battle for most lawyers.

[00:24:14] Merry Neitlich: It’s overwhelming, I think, for most lawyers, and they are busy, and so finding these kind of workarounds where you can, as you said, repurpose the same content. You know, what’s really interesting, one of the things that’s really taken off, and we both know David Oates, who’s a crisis PR professional, David does his short form videos walking while he has his phone maybe on a stick, and you see the street going by as he’s walking.

[00:24:40] Merry Neitlich: But it’s not just him, but that kind of thing really is, is getting rewarded on social media and those posts are getting tremendous interaction and engagement. You have to look, you’re posting. If no one is engaging on your posts, LinkedIn or other social medias, just drop it. They don’t see it that often.

[00:24:59] Merry Neitlich: But if you start to tan people and engage people, if you’re getting engagement and increasing engagement. They will post booster posts and that also helps to drive clients revenue. Yeah referrals 

[00:25:13] Steve Fretzin: Maybe I should just bring my my cute dog rocky like up to the camera and just every time I do Training for lawyers.

[00:25:20] Steve Fretzin: I just bring my dog into it. He’s super cute And then if they, they’re cat people, I have a, I have Tootsie. So I’ve got, I’ve got both of both the dog and the cat people covered, but let’s wrap it up with, with one more question, which is really around the, the lack of improving and keeping up to date on the brand and keeping up to date on the marketing.

[00:25:41] Steve Fretzin: And I’ll just give you a quick example and let you work from there. I’m talking to an attorney the other day, his, his website’s as old as dirt. And I made a comment, not just because I’m, I’m nosy, I guess. And I said, he goes, well, I really don’t want any business from the web, you know, from, from Google or whatever.

[00:25:59] Steve Fretzin: And I said, I said, yeah, but what about your brand about your, you know, being a professional and being seen as a professional? He was like, Oh, Oh yeah, I guess it would be a good thing. I like it. I, he didn’t thought about it that way. He just thought the websites for Google people when in fact I’m giving his name out and everybody’s going to go to his website or his LinkedIn and they’re going to see, is this person a real deal or not?

[00:26:20] Merry Neitlich: I completely agree with you. It’s an older outdated website. First of all, in search rankings. will not pull up because of the technology is outdated. So if your website is more than three or four years old, you might want to think about getting a new one. Literally three to four years. I’ve had clients that have had 15 year old websites and remember what they, those look like.

[00:26:42] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. 

[00:26:42] Merry Neitlich: And you’re right. I mean, most of my clients are not, I’m not looking to, you know, advertise or you, you know, get SEO. So people. Come to my website and hire me. No, but it’s the reinforcement. You get introduced to somebody Forbes tells us that 68 percent of all people will go to your LinkedIn profile before your website bio optimize, at least optimize your LinkedIn profile.

[00:27:06] Merry Neitlich: And then yes, have this website be filled with content with fresh content, short form videos, little bits of information. So people come to check you out and they see that you’re a player. A lot of people forget to post. Articles that they’ve published or interviews that they’ve been on. They just don’t even think of going back to the website and updating it.

[00:27:27] Merry Neitlich: But updating can be helpful unless the technology is so old that the search engines don’t even really give you much credence. 

[00:27:35] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, I think that’s where we’re going to kind of wrap things up. Let’s talk about our friend, our mutual friend, Steve Leshansky, with his game changing book, The Ultimate Sales Revolution.

[00:27:45] Steve Fretzin: He’s such a big part of Provisors and our coaches at Consultants Group that you and I both enjoy. Talk to us a little bit about that book and why it’s your game changing book. 

[00:27:55] Merry Neitlich: Steve Leshansky is one of the smartest people I’ve ever met. His book gives specific ways that engage people and provides questions.

[00:28:06] Merry Neitlich: When Steve goes into an organization, he has a conversation with the top three professionals or if it’s a corporation, the executives, and he asks them, what do you think are the top three goals of your firm or your company? And they’re never the same. And so we always start there with a strategic alliance, getting everyone in that law firm to make sure they understand where they’re headed, what’s important to them, what practice areas, how they distinguish their expertise in any particular area of law.

[00:28:38] Merry Neitlich: And the book is just filled with detailed information that you can take home immediately, use to create better alignment within your firm and better messaging. 

[00:28:50] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, shout out to Provisors and Steve Leshansky. And as we wrap up, thanking our sponsors, Rankings IO, and of course, Get Staffed Up.

[00:28:59] Steve Fretzin: And Mary, if people want to learn more about you, they want to talk to you about helping them with their, their law firm brand, what, what are the best ways for them to reach you? 

[00:29:07] Merry Neitlich: Well, they can certainly reach me at Mary, it’s m e r r y at e m consults. org, or they can, welcome to call me at 949 260 3255.

[00:29:20] Merry Neitlich: 0 9 3 6. I’m old school and give out my phone number and also I’m on LinkedIn and you can always message me on LinkedIn. And even if you just want to have a conversation, I’m happy to do so. 

[00:29:32] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, thanks for being a two timer on the show and coming on and sharing your wisdom. I mean, every time we speak I feel smarter and and learn something valuable.

[00:29:43] Steve Fretzin: And I think you know, we’ll continue to collaborate together, but just appreciate you and appreciate all you do for the legal community. 

[00:29:49] Merry Neitlich: I appreciate you and your expertise as well. It’s, and your podcasts are just fabulous. 

[00:29:54] Steve Fretzin: Well, thank you. I was going to say, maybe not the beginning when I couldn’t speak.

[00:29:59] Steve Fretzin: I had to get it. I was having some struggles at the beginning, but I think, I think we found our group. 

[00:30:04] Merry Neitlich: It was like the tin man with the oil can 

[00:30:06] Steve Fretzin: oil. Yes. Loosen up the joints. Oil my brain. Put some oil in there. My ear. Well anyway, thanks again. I appreciate it. Mary. My pleasure. Yeah. And thank you everybody for spending time with Mary and I again on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast.

[00:30:20] Steve Fretzin: We are rocking and rolling for you to be that lawyer. So take care everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again very soon.

[00:30:30] Narrator: Thanks for listening to Be That Lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin. com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information, about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.