Gerard Virga: Turning Client Crisis into Clarity with Structure, Tools, and Communication

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gerard Virga discuss:

• Navigating emotional complexity and client crises in family law
• Evolving business development practices in solo and small firm legal settings
• Expanding legal services through education, technology, and content creation
• Managing personal and professional balance to prevent burnout in law practice

Key Takeaways:

• Direct, relationship-focused communication—such as sharing personal contact info—can build trust, drive referrals, and deepen client loyalty.
• Implementing educational tools like AI videos and podcasts helps clients understand legal processes and significantly lowers their anxiety.
• Developing and signing a litigation strategy plan early in the case helps align client expectations, reduces unnecessary conflict, and clarifies legal goals.
• Carefully qualifying clients based on emotional stability and willingness to follow advice helps reduce burnout and improve case outcomes.

“If we don’t alleviate that pressure early, we don’t answer those questions, we don’t get to the root of the problems, then it’s going to fester.” —  Gerard Virga

Unlock the secrets of the industry’s top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT

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Episode References: 

The Game Changing Attorney by Michael Mogill: https://www.amazon.com/Game-Changing-Attorney-Competition-Obvious-ebook/dp/B07JWGX3YB

About Gerard Virga: Gerard Virga is a seasoned family law attorney and the founding partner of The Virga Law Firm, where he leads a team of dedicated legal professionals across offices throughout Florida. With a passion for advocating for families during life’s most challenging transitions, Gerard has built a firm known for its commitment to excellence, personalized client care, and aggressive representation in family law matters.

Connect with Gerard Virga:  

Website: http://www.thevirgalawfirm.com/

Phone: 850-818-0236

Show: The Florida Family Law Attorney Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-florida-family-law-attorney-podcast/id1799493137

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gerard-virga-006a9263/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/thevirgalawfirm

Twitter: https://x.com/TheVirgaLawFirm

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gerard.virga.5 & https://www.facebook.com/virgalawfirm/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thevirgalawfirm/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everybody, Steve Fretzin here. Be that lawyer and you know, listen, lawyers are always asking me number one question, what’s the secret to building a thriving practice? Well, I asked a hundred of the best rainmakers in the world and I put their answers in one book. It’s called Be That Lawyer, 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice and it is your new playbook for client development, business development, marketing mindset, time management.

You name it, it’s in there. Chock full of goodness. Grab your copy now on Amazon and be that lawyer

Narrator: you are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.[00:01:00]

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Welcome back. It’s Steve Fretzin and I am the host of the Be That Lawyer Podcast. We are right at 500 episodes. Pretty good stuff there, Gerard. What do you think?

Gerard Virga: That’s excellent. I’ve started my own podcast and we’re on episode three. I hope to get to five today.

Steve Fretzin: It seems like it’s way out there, right?

But ultimately it’s not gonna be too bad. You know, a lot of it just comes down to being consistent and just getting ahead of it, right? Like I have, I don’t know, a month and a half to two months of guests like already done and like in the bank. Like completed. So I’m not feeling that stress about I have to get one this week, I have to get one this week.

I’ve got ’em. And then, uh, I’m able to either turn people away or do other things like that. But I listened to your second one, I think, and it seemed like you’ve got a good handle on it.

Gerard Virga: I appreciate that. You know, it’s, I’ve been interviewed before on a podcast like this, but I’ve never done the interviewing.

I, when you switch seats, it’s a whole different ball game. But, uh, I think it’s a great way to get information out to people about family law who are going through the process and give ’em [00:02:00] some insights on not only the legal aspects of stuff, but also, and we have mental health professionals and, uh, we have an accountant that’s about to come on.

To give them a lot of ancillary information that they may not have so that they can really make the best decisions and have all this tools to pull from and, uh, you know, to educate the client. Because I find in family law, a lot of the struggle is anxiety. Mm-hmm. You have a lot of anxiety about the unknown and they’ve never gone through this.

They don’t know what to expect. And if we can go ahead and give them the information, then hopefully they don’t have as much anxiety about what’s gonna happen next and the what’s going forward with their case and how to best present everything.

Steve Fretzin: I don’t wanna get into the weeds too fast ’cause we still have a quote of the show.

But I will tell you that the one area, my father was a general, like last of the generalist, like he did everything in law and the one area that he couldn’t stomach after a while was family. He had to bail and, uh, no apologies, he just said that was one that he just, he did just couldn’t. Over time he just realized like there was too much emotion for him to get wrapped up in it.

But that’s part of, I think what [00:03:00] makes a great divorce or family attorney is your guts about the whole thing, you know?

Gerard Virga: Yeah. A joke. It’s, uh. From a Rambo movie, it’s a quote. It’s uh, what you call, hell, he calls home and that’s how we live. Like, you know, yeah, he’s run from this. But you know, for me it’s, you know, you really are helping the client on the most intimate levels of their family and their future.

And, uh, you get to know that family and it’s, you know, it gets tough at times, but it’s, you know, really the end result is unbelievable. If you can, you know, get ’em through it.

Steve Fretzin: And I like that quote. I know we had another one planned for the quota show, but now that you said Rambo, I’m sort of in on that ’cause I’m, you know, 54 years old in the Rambo era and the Rocky era.

I mean, that’s my childhood, right? Those are my teenage years. I actually have a trivia question for you, but it’ll pop into my head in a minute. I’m gonna test you in a few minutes on something that you won’t, you may or may not be able to get. It deals with the same context of what we’re talking about anyway.

So. What you call home is what I call hell. What you call hell is what I call home Run. Wrap that a little bit. I mean, that’s [00:04:00] not just for family law. I think that has to do with life.

Gerard Virga: Well, you know, as a family law attorney or as, as any attorney, I. We’re dealing with people’s, you know, worst moments. I mean, they are in their own personal hell, their and family law, especially their, you know, family has fallen apart in some ways and having to be rebuilt.

They may come home to an empty house where one of the spouses already cleared ’em out or wiped out a bank account, or is denying them even being able to see their kids. So that’s a, in my opinion, a personal hell. And then, you know, what I think happens a lot in my 20 years of experience is sometimes the spouse doesn’t answer the phone for him anymore.

Or doesn’t talk to ’em or doesn’t communicate. Yeah. Then all that anger and those feelings, you know, they’re paying me to answer the phone. So I’m dealing with those raw emotions and then trying to get them past that and into a place where they can really dissect the problem and look at it logically.

And you know, one thing I always tell people, you can’t live life living in their rear view mirror. You’re gonna hit something, [00:05:00] gotta get them turned off the past. Looking toward the future and how we’re gonna rebuild and reshape that future. And that’s a challenge. But, uh, you know, my first day as a law clerk, I was working for a guy, I wasn’t even a lawyer yet, and I pick up the phone and I get called to SOB.

USOB Where’s my child support? Yeah. And I was taken back ’cause nothing in law school. You know, these professors did not prepare me for this type of, uh, behavior. And I thought lawyers were respected and yeah, I was the only other male working in the law office that time, so she assumed I was the lawyer when she heard a masculine voice on the phone.

But by the end of the day, I had turned her around. I had salvaged the relationship. We were on the path to getting her her child support so she could pay her rent for her kids. Mm-hmm. And, and you know, to me that’s like a little microcosm of what my career has become, is dealing with people who are in crisis and then getting them onto a positive footing.

Okay. Moving forward, you know, but yeah, what you call, hell we call home and you know, and we’re there, we’re used to it. We know what to expect and try to get people through that and [00:06:00] hopefully coach them as much as a lawyer can be a coach or a counselor into a more productive, healthy. Positive outlook for the future.

Yeah. And how to deal with the future.

Steve Fretzin: And I, I mentioned a show ago that, uh, or two that I sometimes have as a lawyer coach, right? I’m working with lawyers who are going through, you know, the challenge of dealing with life, dealing with heavy billable hours, whatever it might be. And then on top of that, I’m throwing, Hey, you gotta go out and develop business.

And so I have to have a therapist hat, right? Because if their mind isn’t in the game and they’re getting negative or they’re feeling bad about it, or this didn’t work or that didn’t work, or this is hard. So I think we all have to step in and try to, you know, wear different hats to help different people, including ourselves through difficult times.

Gerard Virga: Yeah. And I think a lot of times people forget that, like even in family law and even the, uh, people I work with here at the firm, you know, my average day is I have my family law cases, I’m working, so I’m dealing with their problems. Mm-hmm. I’m a dad and a husband, so I have my family hat I have to put on and [00:07:00] wear.

But then I also have to keep up with the latest technology. How is, how are we gonna be marketing? What’s the future hold? Is it SEO or is it ai? Is AI gonna replace Google? You know, how are we also not forgetting those personal relationships on a, uh, you know, on a personal level that are honestly some of the best connections and best ways to make money and to bring clients into the firm.

History, referrals. So you have to wear all these hats, and as technology just increases and the world gets more complicated, it just seems like there’s more and more hats that you have to wear each day.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Well, I’m gonna take like a, a weird side door to ask you a question. Since you like Rocky and you like Rambo.

Here’s a movie, a movie line, and you have to tell me the name of the movie. You’re The Disease, I’m the Cure. Oh, I think I got you. This says, shout out to my rainmakers Neil Dishman. It’s one of his favorite movie posters. Cobra. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You knew it right away. That is it. Yeah. Yep. All right, well listen that, there you go.

If you haven’t seen the movie Cobra, I’d like to say you’re not missing much. [00:08:00] It’s awful. But Rainbow and rocky movies are great. So we, we look, we’ve jumped into things. We gotta take a step back. Take a step forward, everybody. Ard Virga is the founder and managing partner of his own firm. Uh, do you wanna talk a little bit about how you.

Yeah, about your background and how you got into running your own gig. Yeah, sure.

Gerard Virga: You know, some people may say, I have odd career or path to get here, but, uh, I’ve started off as I was a law clerk for Senator Sessions up in, in Washington. Then I was an assistant attorney general over in Tallahassee, and I really wanted to come home to Panama City where my family was.

I moved back and I started practicing at a firm and they did criminal and. Family law and just a little bit of civil, and when I was there, you know, I started to really develop a, a knack for the family law. You know, I had gone, I was going through at that time a divorce myself and you know, I just had a hunger for as much information as I possibly could get.

And I think, you know, having that life experience of [00:09:00] going through that helped me because. It took the words off the page and bought ’em into reality. You know, sometimes lawyers I think forget that, you know, it all looks good and clean in a statute book or in case law, but when you have to live it or you’re going through it, then you know, that’s a whole other level of, uh, complexities and emotion.

So people started to just ask for me to do the divorces. Do the family law cases in which I took more and more on, and eventually I decided it was just time for me to, to go on my own and I went on my own. And you know, it’s been kind of growing ever since.

Steve Fretzin: Real quick before you move on. I mean, going out on your own.

For some people that’s never gonna happen. For other people it’s scary as all heck. And then for other people it’s like, I’m all in on that idea. What were the things that you, that helped you to feel either confident about that? What were the things that sort of. Scared the dickens outta you. Just talk through that.

’cause I think there’s people that are, you know, interested in that perspective and are listening to the show.

Gerard Virga: I know. I wish I could say I wasn’t scared and [00:10:00] I, I was probably about 28 years old.

Steve Fretzin: Okay.

Gerard Virga: I think I had maybe a thousand dollars to my name. Wow. And I just decided that no, no disrespect for the opportunity and no disrespect for the people I was working with.

I just wanted to do it my way, and I don’t mean that like in some egotistical way. Mm-hmm. You know, I remember I got, you know, that was back when cell phone minutes were, you know, pretty expensive. And I was getting scolded for the amount of time I was using the cell phone and I was talking to clients.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: And I was talking after hours or I was taking weekend calls because family law happens on weekends, that’s when people do pickups, drop offs. People, you know, have a lot of issues after hours, you know, and on weekends. And I wanted to create a client experience. My goal was to have this experience where it was more free flowing communication, that they knew that somebody really cared on the other side.

And you know, that was my goal and it’s always been my goal and I keep [00:11:00] trying to get it better and better and refine it over time. That was really, I think, the real impetus of, you see, I’m gonna take my shot and do this in the way I feel proud about. Doing it and being able to offer those types of services.

And you know, people to this day still say You’re crazy. You give your clients your cell phone. But I will tell you it’s twofold. I mean, one is, you know, your clients are happy when you pick up the phone or they feel they have that personal relationship with you. Mm-hmm. And two is, I’ll give an example.

Last year I had the flu and uh, I was at home and I picked up, I think three cases just from my couch. And there were referrals from other clients who had the cell phone number. I. Quickly route the person to the office and do a conflict check and everything. But you know, it pays dividends, that kind of personal relationship.

So that’s, you know, that really is what pushed me to do it. But obviously the economic fear was unbelievable. I was like, Hey, you know, am I gonna be the lawyer over here who declares bankruptcy or the laughing [00:12:00] stock as everybody who was part of the, you know, established legal community. Like, what is this kid doing over here?

Opening up his office on top of a bail bondsman in the attic as that’s what I could afford. You know, there were all those pressures, all those concerns. And then you’re also wondering where you’re gonna get your clients. And that was know webpage were coming on the scene. But that was still a big phone book era, you know.

But what I found was, uh, believe it or not, I would volunteer at the legal clinics on the weekends to help and. Those individuals, while they could not help me, you know, necessarily along my goal of getting paying clients, they started to have friends and families and they would refer them. And so I started to get a referral base that way.

And just networking, you know, I where I could, and before you know it, it just, I kept growing and growing

Steve Fretzin: all. So look, everything turned out. Great. You’re killing it. But if you had the opportunity, and we don’t, but if [00:13:00] you had the opportunity to go back in time, what, if anything, would you have done differently?

Gerard Virga: Would you have besides, besides not learn personal entry law?

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Other than that,

Gerard Virga: uh, I think, you know what I would’ve done differently in the beginning, and I think I’m just now maybe reaching a, an age to really understand a lot more of what people are going through is I. Like I said in the beginning, I think there’s a lot of anxiety.

I think anxiety drives a lot of the things that people dislike about family law, and I don’t even know if the technology was really there yet, but taking an approach where not only I’m your lawyer, but I’m your, I’m your teacher, I’m your educator in this foreign landscape and I’m trying to teach you the path through this.

What I’m doing now, and I wish, you know, I had thought about this years ago, is. Setting up a more, more like a, a training education pathway for the client. And I’m not talking about the general letter about [00:14:00] don’t call too much or you’ll build or you know, but what are we doing at this phase? What are these true questions?

What media can I give you to understand that and what we really developing? And you know, with technology it’s helped. And we have the podcast now that we’re adding, so there’s audio visual component. ’cause there’s a lot of people don’t like to read. Or they don’t have the time to read. We’ve added, uh, AI sent, uh, AI videos that explain kind of the mundane, you know, what’s expected in your mandatory disclosures, you know, so they can back ’em up.

And then we’re developing more and more literature, pamphlets and books and trying to break the process into these little bite size stages. Or maybe there’s not as much anxiety ’cause we’re, you know, we’re, we’re eating the elephant one bite at a time.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: I think that’s something that, you know. Would’ve been a, um, you know, something that’s probably been overlooked in family a lot.

Yeah. And, you know, building to a, uh, more of a net network of experts because in the beginning you’re just lucky [00:15:00] to have clients. Right. And then I think with younger attorneys, there’s always a fear to really ask for what you need financially. You know, asking for a bigger retainers difficult, or asking for the experts.

But I think one of the things I’ve really developed over the last few years. A true appreciation for is, Ty goes back to Steve Jobs when he said, somebody asked him what he did and he says, I conduct the orchestra. Right. That’s what a fam, a good family law attorney does, and we think about that as our case and our paralegal and, but it is, it’s honestly a much bigger team.

If you’re doing it right and you have a bigger case, you know, you might have the appraiser, the forensic account, the psychologist, the social investigator, and team of people who. Help your client forward, make the best, make the best decisions going forward at the earliest stages to mitigate damage, but also be able to present just the best possible case for your client by having all those professionals to call upon.

And, you know, and I think that’s a, a real advantage [00:16:00] that I wish I had had or should have been thinking in those terms, but I think, you know, as a lawyer, a lot of times we’re very egocentric. It’s me, it’s my case. I’m the lawyer. I’ve gotten to the point now where I tell a lot of clients, I’m just the guy asking the questions.

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Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the, you know, I’m the host of the Be That Lawyer Podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing, or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice.

Just head over to Fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you, and let’s make this your [00:17:00] breakout year. There’s a movie that came out years ago that is absolutely brutal to watch. I may have mentioned on the show once or twice, but Marriage Story with Adam Driver, SK Hanson, right? Ray Liotta plays the high powered lawyer and he’s got Adam Driver in his office.

He says, look, if you’ve got questions and they’re, you know, they’re really good questions, you’re gonna want to ask me and talk to me, I’m a thousand hour. If you have dumb questions, which is most of what you’re gonna have, you’re gonna wanna talk to him. He’s 500 an hour. Now, that’s not something I would highly recommend any lawyer say to anybody.

However, I think that the concept of a team, the concept of delegating, the responsibility of, there’s a lot of things that people ask questions about. Do they need to be talking with the name on the door or can they be talking to the team? Because most of the questions they ask are not, you know, major forest fires, they’re little, you know, there’s a little stove fire or something like that.

Gerard Virga: Right? And what we do with our ours is we’re not blunt like Ray Liotta else, but our, our [00:18:00] system is, you know, every hour I work, it’s my hourly rate and there’s the associates hourly rate and the paralegal’s hourly rate. And then what I’ll try to do is I will try to delegate the work where I can to get you the most return on investment.

Because a lot of times I think people lose sight of that in legal proceedings, especially in divorce. What is the return on the investment? You know, if we have a 10 or $20,000 trial over a table that you could pick up at Walmart for a hundred dollars, nobody wins. Nobody’s a winner here. Now, I learned, I learned that early on.

I did a mediation one time and it was dragging on, and like we’re killing each other in there. And so finally the mediator leaves the room. I’ll ask my client, I was like, Hey man, we’ve been here all day. Can you gimme some inspiration about this table as a mahogany? It belonged to your grandmother. Did it come over on the Mayflower?

And the lady, I never will forget, you know, tells me it was a [00:19:00] $90 table at Walmart. And so I looked at her and I remember just saying to myself, I’ll, uh, I’ll credit you a half hour. Of my time.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: Signing the agreement. Get outta here and go by yourself. Two tables.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: And, uh, you know, and let’s get outta here over this, but yeah.

You know, the return on investment is always something that when people have a lot of emotions and their emotions are running high. Yeah. Trying to separate that from, you know, the emotions from what is the real return here or what is the real end game? Or if you’re fighting for 50 50. You want equal custody, I gotta have equal custody.

But you’re a truck driver. How are we going to accommodate in the future? Mm-hmm. This equal, you know, be careful with, I remember a case where a lady, uh, she had to have all the real property, all the real property, wanted the real property. And finally we parted ways because I told her I just didn’t feel good about the case anymore.

And it’s like Kenny [00:20:00] Rogers said, the gambler, sometimes you gotta know when to walk away.

Steve Fretzin: Yep. And when to wa

Gerard Virga: Yeah. I never will forget. It wasn’t, you know, about a year later, uh, she was trying to sell me all this real property and I was like, I don’t, not in the market, my client, I don’t wanna be involved with something like that.

But she had gotten exactly what she wanted.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: But it wasn’t really what she needed.

Steve Fretzin: No, no. I’m

Gerard Virga: separating that out. You know, it’s hard for people to do.

Steve Fretzin: You know, something you mentioned earlier, Gerard was, you know, lawyers. Working weekends and evenings, they got their cell phones, they’re getting calls, they’re getting, you know, and I take it a step further, you’ve got clients calling you, you’ve got your partners, like say you’re at a mid-market firm or full service firm and you’re working on matters for other people and they’re calling you and all this weight that’s being put on an individual attorney to get their job done.

By the way, they have three, you know, someone’s got three kids and they got all the responsibilities and that, and health problems. You just pile it on business [00:21:00] development, whatever it might be. What’s your thought on avoiding burnout? Like what should lawyers be thinking about and doing to try to stay mentally, physically, whatever fit to handle the rigors of this job?

Gerard Virga: Well, you know, I can’t say I’ve always had the answers to all that, but a few years ago I had a, a pretty serious illness and it caused me to kind of start reevaluating what’s important mm-hmm. And how to, you know, how to focus in on that. I think there has to be some hard stops where it is family time or I’m focused on my family.

I think too, some of it comes as a, as a business decision and something I’m really, you know, been struggling with and trying to get our firm there. Is this client a good fit?

Steve Fretzin: Mm-hmm.

Gerard Virga: Is this somebody who, you know, is gonna pay us and provide, provide us legal fee income, but. Is it somebody that’s going to listen?

Is it [00:22:00] gonna eat up all at the time? Is it gonna be productive, billable time that I feel good about putting in the computer that opposing counsel’s not gonna question me about? Why did you bill for that? Or, and then, you know, listening, I think there’s, I’ve been listening to a lot of, uh, Kenny Rogers, the gambler.

You know, like you said, when to walk away and know when to run. And, you know, looking for the more discerning clients, I think helps with that.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: What they want. And then having an upfront conversation, I think early on about what you can do and what you cannot do for them and what the goals really are and what the strategy is.

And um, something I’ve been working on now is coming up with a litigation strategy plan in the beginning.

Steve Fretzin: Mm-hmm.

Gerard Virga: And going over that with the client and making the client client sign it that these are our goals, this is how we’re planning on doing it. Yes, we’re getting an accountant. No we’re not. You know what?

These decisions early on and then knowing where we’re going. But I think that’s, you know, that’s something that you have to [00:23:00] do and you, you have to take time for you. There has to be some time for your own you, you’re selling your mind, right? You know, that’s what you’re selling as a lawyer is your brain and your mind, and you have to take time, I think to, you know, kind of meditate, clear your head.

And then what I find is sometimes when I move away from work. I’m out of that space and I’m away from the office, or I’m not as focused on a particular case possible. Great ideas. The brain generates about the business and so it feeds itself. Mm-hmm. By being healthy, you feeding the business because you know, it’s just like a lot of times when people, you know, that’s sad.

My best ideas in the shower, when you’re relaxed, when you’re not under that pressure. Sometimes when you have your biggest breakthroughs is when you’re not thinking about work and then it comes to you. Yeah. Um, like being put on the spot and being put under that kind of pressure.

Steve Fretzin: I’ll share something sort of sad but true and I’ll admit this to you and just anyone listening, I actually do my best thinking when I’m [00:24:00] sitting through a really boring meeting, like a group meeting, like a Zoom, and it’s utterly boring.

Like I have no interest in this at all, but I kind of have to be there ’cause you know, they just wanna see my face up on the screen or whatever. I’ll just start jotting down on my, my little pad, my little remarkable two tablet, you know, ideas for a new tagline or ideas for a new podcast episode or, or a article for above the law or whatever it might be, you know?

But I think sometimes just, yeah, just when you’re not in the middle of it to, to break away. But I wanna just take a moment to repeat and kind of re rehash what you said, the importance of. Qualifying clients, you know, and I know it’s hard to qualify crazy and divorce, but maybe minimal amount of crazy and understanding that they’re gonna follow your lead and that they’re open to taking coaching or advice, right?

Because if they’re not, what are you doing? How are you gonna work with someone who won’t take your advice? And there is a lawyer, a family lawyer right now who’s, who’s dealing with someone who won’t take his advice and the guy’s gonna go to jail. Yeah. And he is not taking his advice. He’s gonna [00:25:00] go to jail.

And I said to him, I go, you really think he’s gonna not take your advice? And he goes, he goes, yeah, yeah. He’s going to jail. Like this guy just doesn’t listen in that you’re setting expectations, you’re setting up a strategy and a game plan. And I just think what it really comes down to is really strong levels of communication and under an understanding.

It sounds like that’s a big part of what makes you and your firm very successful in, in working in the family space. Appreciate

Gerard Virga: that.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I.

Gerard Virga: You know, you just have to realize who you’re, who you’re working with. And our average client has never hired a lawyer before. They’re not a, they’re not an insurance adjuster who’s, you know, really savvy with the law.

They’re not a criminal who’s gone through the criminal process over and over what they really are. You know, just a mom and dad and you know, like sometimes it’s like a, uh, I tell people lot times it’s like a soccer mom. Or, you know, a baseball coach, dad. Mm-hmm. And that’s who you’re, that’s who you’re, you know, getting through this legal process.[00:26:00]

They’ve never done this before. They have no idea what to expect. This is not their umpteenth deposition. And you have to, you know, expect that there’s a lot of stress and pressure on them. And if we don’t alleviate that pressure early, we don’t answer those questions. We don’t get to the root of the, the problems.

Then it’s gonna fester, you know? And, and also just setting a, a realistic expectation of what can and cannot be done with this case. And it may cost to the client. You know, there’s times where people like, well I’m not gonna pay you ’cause you can’t get me out of zero. I wanna pay zero child support. And I’m like, I I didn’t promise you I was, God, that’s not happening and I’m not gonna make that promise.

I’m not gonna blow that smoke up here, you know, backside to get the case.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: This is realistically what we’re looking at here and what we can and cannot do. If you don’t, you know, if you think somebody down the road can do it, then feel free. I’ll be surprised sometimes where we have people who I met with a year ago or six months ago and they did not hire, [00:27:00] and I’ll walk into the lobby or, and I’ll see them and they’re back and sometimes they’re back after they’ve had an experience that they weren’t happy with the court system.

They didn’t get, you know, and they’re like, I realized that you were, you were honest. Yeah. And told me what I needed to hear.

Steve Fretzin: Well, I would say out of all the lawyers, any kind of practice that I would wanna really get qualified up and make sure that I got the right one would be a family attorney. I mean, certainly in business litigation other than m and a, and there’s a lot of, you could argue that point, but I think.

It’s like, it’s like, Hey, you know what? I’m gonna get brain surgeon, I’ll just, any old doctor will do. I think you want to have a specialist, and I think you want to get someone that’s highly referred and highly reputable because your kids and your life and your money and everything you’ve earned and worked for your whole life is on the line.

And I think it’s a misstep, you know, to find one on Google or to find one. And I have a friend who found one through another, didn’t come to me, should have come to me right away. I know all the, the best players in particular in [00:28:00] Chicagoland. And, uh, he went, uh, to a, some other friend who got divorced and he went, he didn’t even get his lawyer.

He got his lawyer’s partner. I was like, how do you even know his lawyer? And I was like, and of course it was a horrible experience and the guy did a terrible job and his communication was weak and he didn’t, I mean, it was like, oh my God. So, I mean, I think it’s such an important, important decision, which we need to wrap up though, Gerard.

And, and I, I wanna, uh, thank you and I want to talk a little bit about your favorite book game, changing book, the Game Changing Attorney. So, uh, t talk a little bit about, uh, our friends over crisp in that book.

Gerard Virga: Well, you know, I read the book when I was thinking about doing some, uh, business with Chris about hiring them.

Um, they had been kind of soliciting me since 2017 and I just didn’t think I had the money and, you know, didn’t wanna do do it at that time anyway, as they kept, you know, soliciting. I, I got the book and I started delving into it. And what I thought was very interesting is he’s in marketing, he’s not a lawyer, but.

He started off with a $600 to his name, started his [00:29:00] business. Obviously that reminded me of my experience. Mm-hmm. Grown it to this great networking of, of, uh, you know, lots of video marketing and social media marketing. But the thing that, you know, I really thought that was interesting was he, he, he dedicates like a whole section to like David, David versus Goliath.

And in family law, a lot of times you, I think we, we think of ourself as the David. We’re not the big insurance firm. We’re not a big firm. We’re not, you know, but you know how to compete and how to compete against bigger players and how to compete smartly with your marketing dollars. And this, the, you know, that, that whole vibe of the book and how to, uh, how to, how to make your clients understand what the services you’re offering.

And the value you’re bringing to their case and you know, and you know, we all think about those things. When I read the book, it really started opening up my eyes to like, if I’m a client, and like you said, [00:30:00] you know who to call in Chicago, I know what each lawyer brings their strong, you know? Mm-hmm. But how do you convey that to someone?

How do you do that and get them more? Discerning client as opposed to the person that’s just clicking a paper per click.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Gerard Virga: So I thought that was very interesting is I went through the CRISP experience. I’ll give them a shout out that, um, I thought it was really interesting is they have these classes once a quarter and it’s part of your package when you, you market with, and you know, that will have a couple of speakers, whether it be on AI or on, um, financial responsibility at the firm or marketing.

You’ll go for about two days and you listen, you know, each day and you take notes and you ask questions. But then something that really, you know, exciting happens with that is you, you know, you’re having lunch with a room full of other attorneys. They might be family law, they might be personal injury, they might be estate.

And then, you know, you’re having lunch and you’re, you’re talking about the [00:31:00] material and then you start exchanging ideas. If I, you know, went to the same lunch in my town. I ask another family law attorney, what’s really working for you? I’m probably not gonna get the right answer, you know, or Yeah. You know, but they, they don’t have anything to lose and we’re all spread out from all over the country.

And so it’s a good exchange of information. And then just like I said, when you’re away at those things and you’re away from the office and you’re hearing somebody who’s really a, a thought leader on that subject, talking about it. It stimulates your mind and then you come back here. The only problem is, is you come back with so much stuff, where do you find the time to implement it?

But, you know, it’s, it’s really a good program and that book was kind of the gateway for that.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. And I’m not in no way, shape or form, you know, negating everything you just said. Uh, just giving a shout out to folks listening that, you know, I’ve been running pure advisory groups, mastermind groups for, for about five years now, and it is such a critical thing to have.

Other like-minded successful [00:32:00] people is a sounding board as a crowdsourcing opportunity to meet. You know, for me it’s monthly, it’s a monthly group and everybody’s looking, you know, ambitious. Everybody’s running firms, everybody’s doing whatever, and there, there’s something you just can’t get at your firm and there’s something you just can’t get.

You know, I think once a year or whatever it might be that you get from having a regular reoccurring. Peer advisory network or group to, to go to. So for anyone that’s listening that’s interested in rainmaker round tables, you guys, I don’t talk about it too often because most people know me as a coach and a trainer, but that’s something that’s out there.

If folks are interested, Hey man, if people wanna get in touch with you, what are the best ways for them to reach out to Gerard and, and find out more about what you’re doing in Florida? I think you have like a bunch of, you have like five offices too.

Gerard Virga: Um, we have an office in Pensacola. We have an office in Fort Walton, Panama City Beach.

Panama City, okay. And, um, a main office in Orlando and a satellite. We span pretty much across the state of Florida. I have cases all over the place in Florida, but if you want to get in touch with [00:33:00] us, the website is www.dovvirgalawfirm.com and our office number is 8 5 0 8 1 8 2 3 6. And I’ll be glad to answer any questions or talk with anybody and.

Like you, like you said, it’s so critical to bounce ideas off and to hear what other people are saying and sharing information and, and honestly, I enjoy helping people. So anything we could ever do for anybody, I’d be open.

Steve Fretzin: I appreciate that, and that’s sort of been a theme of our entire episode today, is that you have, you know, stepped up to really be a caring individual for your clients, for your team, for people that want information and want help and understanding.

All the different, you know, aspects of the law and family law in particular. We wanna take a moment to just thank our sponsors, the law, her podcast, and of course PIM Con coming up for the personal injury folks that wanna attend a first class conference down in, uh, Arizona. Thanks so much. Sure. This was wonderful.

I’m just so happy that, uh, that your team reached out to introduce us and get you on the show, and [00:34:00] certainly if I could be of. Help in advising you on your podcast. You’re on episode two or three. I’m heading up the road, but, uh, but I know that, you know, sometimes it takes a village to make less mistakes or to get ahead on something that you care about and you wanna see be successful.

So I’m happy to be a resource for you for that. I.

Gerard Virga: Thank you so much.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, my pleasure. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Gerard and I for, uh, just over 30 minutes today. Really helping you understand, you know, client-centric, uh, smart ways to build and grow firm and really take care of good people.

I hope that it’s helping you every day to be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We’ll talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more [00:35:00] information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.