Seth Price: Why Most Law Firm Marketing Fails and What to Do Instead

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Seth Price discuss:

• Challenges of marketing and business development for lawyers and law firms
• Strategic differences between B2B and B2C legal marketing
• Importance of content creation and personal branding in legal marketing
• Lessons from entrepreneurial growth and mistakes in legal and digital ventures

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers in B2B markets should avoid SEO as a first strategy and instead build relationships through networking, targeted events, or personalized outreach.
• Creating consistent, niche-specific content on LinkedIn is a powerful yet underutilized strategy for establishing authority in legal fields.
• Delegating legal versus business responsibilities within a firm can allow for more focused and scalable growth, as seen in the speaker’s dual-leadership model.
• Trying to network with senior lawyers often yields less return than building long-term relationships with peers who grow into referral sources over time.

“If you create great content over time… you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are going to find it, and you’re going to be that guy.” —  Seth Price
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About Seth Price: Seth Price is a seasoned marketing and branding expert with over two decades of experience in digital marketing. He has consulted for more than 300 companies, including 19 of the Fortune 500, and has helped build four multimillion-dollar companies from the ground up. As VP of Marketing at Placester, he has guided tens of thousands of real estate professionals through social media and content strategies, and he also founded the Real Estate Marketing Academy, which reaches over 75,000 marketers monthly. A recognized thought leader, Seth is a frequent keynote speaker and contributor to outlets like Entrepreneur, Forbes, and REALTOR.com. He is also the author of The Road to Recognition, a go-to guide for building personal brands in the digital age.
Connect with Seth Price:

Website: https://pricebenowitz.com/

Book: The Road to Recognition: https://www.amazon.com/Road-Recognition-Z-Accelerating-Professional/dp/1940858364

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sethprice

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Before we get to the show, I wanna mention again that yours truly, Steve Fretzin will be speaking at PIM Con. I’ll be on the stage with some of the biggest players in legal, and this is a conference where it’s your backstage pass to the personal injuries, vertical’s, biggest players, and lots of new relationships that you can develop.

Check it out@pimcon.org, P-I-M-C-O n.org. That’s all for today. Enjoy the show everybody.

Narrator: You are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Reson, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Rezi.

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Steve. Fretzin, welcome back to the Be That Lawyer podcast. I’m so happy that you’re with us. If you guys haven’t figured it out yet, we’ve got the podcast, we’ve got YouTube [00:01:00] videos, we’ve, we’re all over LinkedIn. We’ve got above the law, we are everywhere. We’ve got the new book, I dunno if you’ve seen this, Seth New book, right?

101 Top, Rainmaker Secrets to Growing Successful Law Practice. It’s all in there. If you wanna learn from the best and brightest, you’re gonna wanna check that out and welcome to the show, man. It’s good to see you. Yeah. Yeah. We’re gonna have some fun today. Absolutely. That’s the name of the game. Fun and Actionable tips for our audience members who have who.

So hungry for knowledge that they’re taking up their busy day to hang out with us. So let’s start off with a quote. This is a very, this is biblical. This is going back to ancient times. Nothing’s easy. That’s the quote you gave me. Nothing’s easy,

Seth Price: every time is, it’s, look, I have not one, but two entrepreneurial ventures.

The law firm in Blue Track Digital. One has 200 employees, the other’s a hundred, hundreds of clients between them. Every stuff that happens every day. I just before I got on here a favorite friend and mentor thought that misunderstanding and thought that he’d been dispersed and nothing’s [00:02:00] easy.

You j you’re working with an employee, you think things are great, and then there’s a, it just, it is a, two step forward, one step back, but that anytime you think you got it all figured out, you’re probably about to get smack in the head.

Steve Fretzin: Actually, I have a resolution for you that you might like.

There’s a little red button that you just put in front of you and you hit it and everything that says, easy button, I found that works really well. I wish, but,

Seth Price: doesn’t work like that actually. Yeah. Look, I have one lawyer at my firm and they’re notorious, they’re amazing, they do incredible volume, but they’ve not been able to hold onto an associate, almost like Murphy Brown style and it’s almost like this revolving door, and I’m like.

The worst thing is when you just don’t wanna make the same mistake twice, they say, and when you’re making it for the third or fourth time, you’re like, what’s wrong with me? Yeah. Or, so anyway, I think that, the flip side of this is that if it was easy, everybody would be doing it.

There we go. Yeah. All right. We wouldn’t have 50 lu, we wouldn’t have 300 clients at Blue Shark, thankfully it is difficult. It isn’t easy. And therefore it gives us a little bit of a moat separating us from the world.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. But I think you nailed it in that, like [00:03:00] mistakes and problems, they’re gonna happen all the time.

It’s like a, how we deal with it and B, what did we learn from it? Absolutely. And if we keep making mistakes over and over, I’ve been punched in the face a few times and then I just keep getting punched in the face. Probably not. Maybe I should learn how to duck, right? Like at some point you gotta stop getting punched in the face.

Awesome to have you here. For everybody listening, Seth Price is the managing partner of Price Benowitz and also the founder of Blue Shark Digital. Love to hear you share your background with everybody in running two, sizable organizations and how that all came to be.

Seth Price: Sure. So I started out, I went to law school started, went to practice ’cause there was, came out when there weren’t a lot of great opportunities in the mid nineties.

And hid in a big law firm for a while, was not great at it, didn’t love it. And late nineties, the.com bubble came up where the internet was a thing and went to New York to make my fortune and started a company that was founding employee for something called US law.com. And when the bubble and the internet burst licked my wounds after one of my [00:04:00] mistakes we can talk about later, and ended up starting the law firm with my college law school buddy, Dave Benowitz.

So over 20 years, we built price ow from a two firm to a 50 firm leveraging digital marketing. And then 10 years ago, I took the in-house digital team that was responsible for. Price Benowitz into the juggernaut that it became, and that became Blue Shark, which now represents about 300 law firms nationwide for search and local search.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So what do you think then being in the space, you have a unique perspective as a managing partner of a law firm and as the founder of a digital company to really see the mistakes that are being made by lawyers and law firms today. Why do you feel like they struggle so much with the marketing side of things?

Seth Price: I think from day one at my firm, I divided and conquered where I focused a hundred percent on marketing and management and operations. And my law partner Dave, was the chief legal officer and he worried about that stuff. Great. So that allowed [00:05:00] for it. But I think it’s that pull and tongue. But a lot of people are the practitioner and yet they have to be able to do all these other things and that’s not easy.

And then, there are people that get it and those that don’t. So first you have to have the bandwidth. Then if you do have the bandwidth, are you allocating things properly? And are you focused on something and digging deep, or are you going after chasing shiny objects? I see a lot of warrior chasing shiny objects, and that’s not a great thing either.

So there’s a time and place for everything. Your podcast has helped you build your business, your empire, whereas there other people where it does nothing. And I think understanding what you do, I’ll give you a great example. If you’re doing.

It’s very hard to bring on a local criminal practice to be able to network yourself to rep to wealth and riches. It’s really, less of a marketed game. Whereas, let’s say you were a local trusted estates lawyer using the B2C world, podcasts were amazing for a lot of reasons, [00:06:00] but if you brought on a different financial Advisor week, those are all potential.

Sources, so is a direct correlation. So I think it’s allocating your time and resources wisely based on what you wanna accomplish. And there are a lot of people out there that either don’t put any resources behind it or time A and then B, those that do, are you allocating it? The resources effectively?

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Although I have an idea. If you are a criminal attorney, maybe bring on like detectives and cops to tell their craziest criminal stories and maybe you’ll pick up some. But maybe it isn’t a business

Seth Price: model. If you did that for a year, would you pick up a case

time, money, and resources? Put that into some sort of, in my opinion, search marketing there. I would recommend it when a B2B lawyer comes to me and says, Hey, should I do SEO? I’m like, absolutely not. Not first at least. You do that with, but have you, do you have season tickets to a game to bring people to the games?

Do you have a podcast? Are you doing a breakfast [00:07:00] meeting where you bring people together with speakers? What are you doing? You, if you’re in a B2B space? I always say, how many potential clients do you have? In your entire metro, that could make you money. You should have a list of those 60. You should be doing lunches and dinners at ball games, and one by one.

That means that 60, if you touch two people a day, every two months, you’ve touched somebody in that circle. And so the idea is it. Finite. Is it medium sized? What is it that you’re trying to accomplish? My point on criminal is, for example, people don’t generally ask for referrals. They do sometimes, but search is so dominant in that space, versus other areas like a personal injury where it could be searched, it could be tv, it could be referrals.

They all work. But if you’re in a space where referrals are much less likely, then you know, you ought to put, you could do it, but it’s less likely to show success. Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: But what it sounds like is that everyone’s gotta a figure out, either what they enjoy, who their clients are, who their referral [00:08:00] sources are, what you know, and go where that action is and not try to just mirror other people or do what everyone else is doing.

So I’m doing podcasting. Everyone should do a podcast. No, that’s not the case, right? It’s gonna be based, if you wanna do a podcast, ’cause it’s fun and because it might get you some branding to show off. Like I could do a podcast on phishing that may not bring me. Lawyers, but it might bring me, it might be a fun thing to do on the side.

I’m not gonna rely on it.

Seth Price: But I think, okay, so let’s, there’s a business philosophy, which is people do what they like to do. It’s true for our employees, it’s true for everybody. And so if you like it, you can see it. You enjoy this conversation, right? You are like, Hey, make sure it’s a conversation in the pregame.

Of course that’s how I roll. But if you don’t like this, if you’re an introvert, it’s not gonna last. My law partner, he was like, he started podcasts, he did three of ’em and they never did it again. For white collar, it would’ve been great. He could’ve had white collar referral sources on for years.

When we do SEO, we have writing. If you like to write, your content will do well. Buddy White, Dan Schwartz is a, an employment defense lawyer at Connecticut as a Connecticut employment lawyer blog, a [00:09:00] brilliant blog. It combines sports, pop culture, family, and some employment law. And he’s made a whole career off.

If you don’t like writing, you’re gonna write one page and it’s never gonna, you have a one page blog and nothing else on it. So I think figuring out not just what will work, but what you enjoy in the intersection of those two. So for me, I started out, I loved the digital. I was in the know the early.com things, early days of the internet.

I loved. Fighting people to link back to me. Looking at the, looking through the web and finding those opportunities. To me that was fun. And so I did it and I did more of it. But if you hated that and being told no and having, door hit you in the head a bunch of times, you’d never do it and you wouldn’t build anything.

So I think it’s, I think the point and you if you had a phishing blog or phishing podcast, you do the best the world, it’s likely not gonna make money as a lawyer might bring, you might have a business selling equipment. But you’re not gonna drive it. So it’s figuring out what you love and combining [00:10:00] that with what is possibly gonna work as a likelihood of success.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And you’ve got business development. You’ve got marketing and branding and I like when people do all of it at the same time. But I think to a point you made earlier, the B2B attorney at a big firm, doing SEO or doing, Google ads, like that’s not gonna make sense. They’re dealings, they’re dealing with general counsels and CEOs at major corporations or whatever.

So how do you break down for a lawyer, if you were to coach a lawyer on figuring out what business development, marketing they should be doing, let’s say, we’ll just come up with it, say like commercial real estate. I. Attorney.

Seth Price: So the first question is B2C versus B2B. Okay. It’s a very big threat, right?

Sounds obvious, but B2C means anybody could be your client within a reason, and B2B, not so when B2C, mass market tv, internet, radio, you name it. When you’re doing B2B, it becomes, I think, in some ways more challenging. So within the B2B world, are you, do you have a finite number of people that can help?

As I [00:11:00] mentioned before. Or is it pretty large? And the question is, how do you get in front of them? And that’s the next question. Are you regional? Are you national? Are if you’re regional, there may be a finite number of potential business sources. And then in one sense it becomes easier.

You could send a, if you go with the Persin permission marketing send. If it’s a hundred people in town, a hundred people getting a bottle of wine from you, somebody’s gonna pick up the phone and say hi. You see the gifting programs, I’m looking at that on the marketing side as a B2C lawyer.

Some of the large marketing companies do gifting programs to get your attention. And it’s fascinating. You send somebody enough gifts, they’re gonna take your call. And are there things you can do? Are you doing podcasts or doing speaking, all of those things. There’s no one magic thing, but that I think that you need to recognize what is likely to bring success and you can try anything there.

Look, I would argue that there’s a possibility that even with a YouTube channel, you could [00:12:00] crack into areas that of B2B law. Getting that content out there. The question is, would having a message out there move the needle? Or are these people that are never gonna lift into outside elements but need connectors to bring you to them?

You need to figure out what is realistically gonna work.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So it’s really gauging and understanding your audience. Is it local? Is it national? Is it B2B, B2C? And how do they either make a decision or how do they get. To the point where they’re gonna talk with a lawyer. So again, is it through connectors?

Like some people, they’re not even gonna try to market to CEOs or GCs directly. They’re gonna market to the connectors because they’re never gonna get a meeting with those people without the connectors,

Seth Price: right? Or that’s connectors are very powerful. You can go that way. You can try to go your own way, but no, there’s, there’s no magic formula.

It’s, and part of it is you try it for a bit and if it works, great. Stuff that I remember. So on the B2B side, we have a white collar practice, which is as close to [00:13:00] B2B as out there. We still do an internet, like it’s amazing. We still created multi seven figures of income from digital marketing, even for the white collar world.

But most of white collar cases are go-between lawyers. One lawyer gets the CEO, somebody else gets the CFO, somebody else gets the CEO white, et cetera. And one of the things that I recognized early on, we started trying to network up. With the elder statesmen in the industry, and one of the things we noticed, and there’s always an exception to the rule, was that was very difficult.

That those people had been in practice and they had their own people that they had networked with, that they referred stuff out to, and that it wasn’t easy advice to take, but that the better return investment was to focus on the people that were your peers. 20 years ago, those people had a lot, didn’t have many cases to refer out, but over time, as you rose with those people came to prominence.

They had more cases. You had more cases. And that ecosystem worked really nicely. So [00:14:00] some of it I think, is figuring out what sandbox your message is resonating in and paying your dues. But I, again, we’ll come back to the BC example. I am convinced that B2C lawyer who spends all their time at BNI.

Probably misplaced in that. Yeah, you might get a case or two over the course of a year, but your time is not particularly well spent. Again, I’m always about going out. It’s not bad, but you would be infinitely better off figuring out how to find other sources of cases rather than just hoping that networking your way in.

That would be a positive. ROI on Todd.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

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Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the, I’m the host of the Be That Lawyer Podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing, or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch. It’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice.

Just head over to Fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you and let’s make this your breakout year. One of the first things I do with new lawyers that I work with obviously evaluate, their strengths, their weaknesses, their gaps, all this stuff. But it’s really to [00:16:00] identify the low hanging fruit and go after it and create a business plan around it and break it down into pieces.

Do you have, I. A feeling about when you do figure out like what direction you should go, whether it’s particular group that you’re joining, being a speaker, going out and speaking that, how do you break that into manageable pieces? Because I, I remember lawyers managing partners saying what’s your advice to an associate?

Get out there. So like we can talk big picture get out there. It’s worthless. Or we can get into the weeds on like how you actually. Become a great speaker or get an audience of a speaker or get results with speaking as an example. Do you have a flavor for that?

Seth Price: Look, I can, it’s tough in one sense because I’m not you, I do it for myself.

I may have a podcast on growth and I can tell, give stories. My story was I, before I even had a digital agency, I love law, I love marketing, I love digital marketing. And so people would ask me to speak it. I liked it ’cause I was frugal and it was free if you spoke and you got to be in the green room with the other speakers, which is [00:17:00] very often some of the most interesting people there.

I think the problem, if you speak to an associate and you’re young nobody cares what you have to say. It’s tough. It’s which comes first. So the question is, how do you set yourself apart and are you a decent speaker to begin with? Because if you’re not a great speaker, this isn’t even actual sub like how you deliver, that’s another interest you can get better at.

You do toastmasters and things like that. I would say look, right now, especially in the B2B space, LinkedIn is an untapped area. I’ve been playing with it over the last few months. I’ve seen you out there. It’s, people are on there 99 to one, basically viewing or stalking and not producing content.

And LinkedIn needs content. If you’re willing to put content out there, it resonates. You get a lot more interaction when you do stuff controversial, which as an associate, you really can’t ’cause you, part of my whole business, social media concept is do no harm. And when you go edgy, there can be harm.

But to me, if you, it’s consistency, one of my, I love the example out there of Ja Pollard, I’m sure you know from LinkedIn, [00:18:00] he’s one of the sort of for forethought, early evangelists of it. And he, he puts out really opinionated stuff that might not fly at big law, but he went from a guy in a B2B space essentially.

Doing, he’s doing the, these non-competes for executive, the very finite market. The idea is if you create brand and personality within it, and this isn’t like Graham, like John Morgan, but if you’re a B2B lawyer does antitrust. You put out three pieces a week on antitrust and people start seeing you, aggregating information, all of a sudden you’re gonna gain, gravitate, and say, all of a sudden it’s over.

You’ll be a five year, overnight sensation. It’s if you pay your dues and aggregate this stuff. Let’s take antitrust as one of my buddies struggling, antitrust later, 25 years in. If you go out there and you are aggregating information, you a podcast where you’re in the top thought leaders.

Part of the reason we became friends, you’re a podcast and we talked and that’d be cool to be on. And this is a destination. You have a [00:19:00] book, you’ve done these different pieces. So over time, this is, you are the grad school example of what you wanna be doing.

Steve Fretzin: I appreciate that. I’m, and to your point earlier, like this doesn’t happen overnight.

This is a 21 year adventure that I’ve been on, and LinkedIn was, I was at the forefront of that, 18 plus years ago where I have a room of a hundred people that were learning about it for the first time, and I thought it was the greatest sales tool that’s ever been invented. I used to tell people, I want you to take your cell phone.

I want you to go to a toilet, and I want you to throw it in the toilet and flush it down. Go back to a corded phone where you’re stuck to your desk and you have a Yellow Pages. People even know what that is because that’s how powerful LinkedIn is. As powerful as your phone. In many ways, it’s just a computer in your hand.

But I think the problem with LinkedIn for lawyers is there’s two problems. Number one is their mindset is that it’s not beneath them, but it’s I don’t know where to start, or I don’t know how to get going on it. And by the way, why would I bother? [00:20:00] It’s already so crowded. I know I’ve got a hundred ways of dispelling that or demystifying that, but what’s your take on that?

Because it’s clearly from my take is like you’re either in the game or you’re not in the game.

Seth Price: So I was day one of LinkedIn, or basically day two, I got the invitation from the guy, got day one, the next day I got okay. So I was like 20,000 or so, people connected at least as friends on there.

And what I would say is. That what we’re seeing, and I think Gary V and others are talking a lot about this, LinkedIn networks aren’t looking at your connections. Like people with more connections don’t. Right now we’re at a magical time where they’re looking for quality of content and putting that out there.

And LinkedIn in particular is looking for quality, so many bad AI sales pitches, et cetera, that if you are putting thoughtful content, it will resonate. And again, it’s not gonna resonate in one day. I think the first thing is don’t overthink it. I have a friend who in the B2B space years ago, I go on Facebook or go on LinkedIn and my answer is both like [00:21:00] it’s, LinkedIn has its place and Facebook has its space.

People do work with people that you like and trust. I know people that you know you, just like in the early days of email, you could email the CEO of Ford Motors and get through because nobody was emailing. Now obviously that doesn’t work. Know LinkedIn messages, we get way too much spam. I assume that anything with the word synergy is just spam or collaboration.

It’s like it’s gonna, it’s wasting my time. That said, if you get a Facebook messenger, that’s pretty powerful stuff and you can get to people that you wouldn’t get to. What ordinarily people that are, name brands in the legal and or marketing space I can connect with? In a way, that way I couldn’t, any other way, my emails would get screened out and there’s no way I’d be able to get ahold of them.

So I think it’s figuring out what works and the idea, look, Nike says it, just do it. It’s true. Again, consistency, it’s too [00:22:00] crowded. Give it a shot. Take, play. It’s almost like you’re on The Tonight Show. Spin the wheel. Find me the most arcane area. The more arcane, the better.

Legal. If you start putting content on that, you may not get a ton of interaction, but the people that are interested are gonna find it and you’re gonna be that guy. And all of a sudden, now when someone needs a podcast, it goes there. It’s, there’s a lot of power. And to me, if you’re so willing to, I don’t wanna share my personal stuff, have a dummy account on Facebook.

Facebook is for middle aged people and you could do a lot of damage and connect with a lot of people. In ways that you couldn’t otherwise. ’cause again, it’s about, in the B2B space it’s who do you know and trust. And it’s very hard to scale that. That’s why this podcast is great.

We, you and I are a prime example. We have done, we have spent more time on podcasts than we had outside of podcast. I’ve seen a conference or two for five minutes here or there as you’re running from thing to thing. But really our relationship is entirely [00:23:00] podcast based.

Steve Fretzin: And the thing that people don’t understand is one of the challenges with LinkedIn and anytime you’re trying to put out content is you have to sit and think about it and figure out like what you’re gonna write, what you’re gonna put on, and what we have figured out is that when you have an article that you write or you have a podcast that you put on.

Videos that you do, whatever it is, the content that you then have the instant ability to post on social media. ’cause you have the con, you’re building content and you need a place to put it. You need a place to take that content and break it up. So like this podcast and maybe people are getting sick when we hear me telling this, but like I have the, we have the video, we have the audio, we’re gonna write what’s called a blogcast, took the podcast, wrote a book.

There’s all these ways of getting movement and adding value. On social media and I, so that’s why I think creating content helps. If you’re not creating content, you’re just thinking outta your head every day. What am I gonna do today? What am I gonna do today? And you just blow it off. ’cause there’s [00:24:00] easier things to think about, like the work, right?

Seth Price: But I would say that as you’re saying that, I could see some of these naysayers trying to go off. Everything you say is right? Let’s start with that. Yeah. Yes, multi. But that’s not the point. The point is, if you create great content over time, if you’re in some B2B niche that nobody, you can’t do Google ads, you can’t.

SEO, you can’t do local search. But if you’re able to produce thoughtful content in that area, or better yet, you are the aggregator that brings it together. Or shows people when they’re stuff, ’cause you’re finding it freaking Google alert can get you a, again, forget about the multip purposing, yes, you are right.

But like I know that people who should be listening to you are shutting off with that. What I’m saying is own the content and be the be that person and good things will happen. I think. You mean be that lawyer? Exactly.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. All right. Just checking. Can’t use that. That’s trademarked. That is trademarked.

Absolutely. I got the t-shirt and everything. Ultimately though, if [00:25:00] you’re not creating content that you can repurpose, then you know I have articles in Above the law and other places where I talk about, create a poll a week. Ask a question, get engagement. I did a poll. Listen, you’ll love this, Seth, if you didn’t see it, but.

I did a poll about the solicitation that’s going on LinkedIn, where you’re getting those messages and what do people think about it? I think I got a hundred responses in about 12 hours. If I look at it now, it might be 200 responses. So 200 people have interacted and engaged with a poll, and I, by the way, I also want to know the answers, like how do they feel about, do they feel the same that I do, that I immediately disconnect from someone that’s selling me on LinkedIn?

But ultimately, doing a poll, creating a top 10 list of, you figure it out, estate planning tips for people who hate estate planning, whatever it might be. You’re just come up with something and then you said the word consistent and then make a consistent play every week or every day, whatever your jam is to get it out there and play the game that’s being played.

Seth Price: [00:26:00] Absolutely. So to me it really is, it’s being the center of that mini universe. There was a guy I read growing up when I was a baby lawyer. It was telecom bill. He was that guy. There are trial lawyers I know that go to the trial lawyer meeting each week and or each month and give the update on the relevant case.

Law puts them at the forefront.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Seth Price: They’re smart guys, but they’re just, they’re putting that extra effort in. If you create, if you’re the aggregator, if you’re the intersection where you’re bringing people timely information. It’s there and then God forbid you actually find the people that could use that and that you push it out to them then that’s, it’s not rocket science and the smaller your universe, to me, the more comparable it is.

In one sense, B2C is challenging, but to me, I love it. To me, the local search concept where you could show that the dominant player locally is what I love and would’ve used to move the needle when finite. That’s where you know you can do some real damage because [00:27:00] it’s now you can give real time and attention to almost each one.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Really great stuff. We could probably talk for hours about this. I wanna wrap up with your, what we call Seth’s big mistake. What’s a big mistake you made in your career, in your life that you break, look at now and go, yep, that was a big mistake and here’s what I did about it.

Seth Price: Look, I my law partner and I, before we launched the law firm.

Did a bunch of real estate investing in like lower income neighborhoods and didn’t love it. It was really diff, it was very tough and I didn’t love some of the decisions you had to make, and that as the market crashed, it became even less fun. So to me, eliminating something, even though long-term could have been very lucrative for, the focus.

You have so much time and attention and saying, you know what, rather than having to deal with. Disgruntled tenants and lead pain issues and this and that. Being able to focus on building something you really cared about or passionate about, that was a big win.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. The power of saying no or the power of removing something negative or that [00:28:00] takes your time.

I don’t think lawyers, people in general do enough of that. That could be even like a bad relationship with a friend, like how do we just like exit from the negative and exit from things that don’t make us happy.

Seth Price: Absolutely. Yeah. It’s easier said than done, but when you do it, it’s really great.

Steve Fretzin: Absolutely. Thank you man. So let’s wrap up with our sponsors, of course Law, her podcast, everybody. Check out my friend Sonia doing that. And of course Pim Con happening in September. No, it’s happening in October in Scottsdale. First class experience there with Chris Dryer. Seth, the people want to get in touch with you.

They want to hear about price Beic or Blue Shark Digital. What are the best ways for them to reach you? Just

Seth Price: connect on socials LinkedIn. Do you do social media? I hadn’t heard. For the. I’m not even that to me, that I get it, I get it. It’s just the easiest way. I know there’s always else at the Blue Star, but I, to me, it’s the conversation which you love so much and continuing it and being part of it.

Look forward to sharing that with your audience.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. We’ve got, half a dozen amazing takeaways from our show today, and I’ve got my usual page of [00:29:00] notes of things that I’ll be, creating video around and just taking all the bright and brilliant things that you’ve shared today and producing content, but.

I just wanna tell you how much I appreciate you coming on the show and what you’re doing for lawyers, how you’re helping improve their lives, and and I’d love to have you back soon. We just gotta, we’ll keep in the loop though.

Seth Price: Look forward to it. Great to see you.

Steve Fretzin: Thank you Matt. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Seth and I today on the Be That Lawyer podcast.

We are here to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show [00:30:00] notes.