Jordan Whelan: How Targeted Strategy and Inner Work Drive Legal Success

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jordan Whelan discuss:

• The evolving landscape of legal marketing and SEO strategies
• Identifying and targeting the right audience through buyer personas
• Leveraging video, local SEO, and low-cost marketing tactics for visibility
• The role of mindset, metaphysics, and visualization in business growth

Key Takeaways:

• A law firm’s website must be technically optimized and emotionally resonant, clearly communicating its unique value proposition to convert visitors.
• Targeted marketing—such as divorce ads placed during peak conflict hours on female-dominated radio stations—can dramatically improve campaign effectiveness.
• Inexpensive tactics like geo-targeted short videos, active engagement on platforms like Quora and Reddit, and cross-platform posting tools can generate steady traffic.
• Building SEO authority, particularly in local search, creates long-term assets that not only drive business now but also increase the firm’s valuation for future sale.

“If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly.” —  Jordan Whelan
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About Jordan Whelan: Jordan Whelan is the founder of Grey Smoke Media. With a background as a TV and radio producer and a publicist, he has managed over $3 billion in class action claims communications. He spent a decade mastering media buying (managing over $50 million in spend) and digital marketing, achieving the proverbial 10,000 hours of practice.

Under his leadership, Grey Smoke Media helped Diamond and Diamond Lawyers grow from a small practice to Canada’s top injury and real estate law firm. Before rebranding Grey Smoke Media as a legal marketing agency, Whelan worked with publicly traded pharmaceutical companies, the Pan Am Games, Brookfield Asset Management, Intact Financial Corporation, and crypto powerhouses such as Coinsquare.

Whelan’s insights have appeared in over 100 international outlets, including The New York Post and Forbes. In his personal time, he is an accomplished singer-songwriter with over 3 million streams on Spotify.

Uniquely, Whelan provides metaphysics-based business coaching that blends mindset mastery, wealth expansion, and energetic alignment to help his clients unlock their highest potential.
Connect with Jordan Whelan:

Website: http://www.greysmokemedia.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jordanjpower/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here, and if you’re ready to take your law practice the next level. You gotta check out my new show. Be that lawyer coach’s corner, it’s launching on August 25th. You’ll get my best strategies, tips, and systems, the same ones I use with my private clients every day, so you can win more business, work smarter and love your career.

Again, mark your calendar for August 25th and check it out. Be that lawyer.

Narrator: You are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here. Welcome back. It’s. Be that lawyer. We are rocking and a rolling every single week, twice a week, bringing you [00:01:00] the most amazing people you’ll ever want to hear. Talk about legal stuff. And today’s no different. I got Jordan waiting in the wings. How’s it going my friend?

Jordan Whelan: Thank you so much for having me on.

I’m excited.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That wasn’t a very excited way of saying you’re excited. You should be like, I’m excited. Thank you. So I’m thrilled to see, yeah, you just needed some direction, right? That’s all pride. Get you all wired up

Jordan Whelan: to get me going. Yeah, that’s it.

Steve Fretzin: That’s it. I’ll send you one. No, but I’m so happy you’re here and we’re gonna have a really rich conversation today.

Let’s start off. A quote from like my first like sales mentor, author, Napoleon Hill. Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve. So welcome to the show and share a little bit about Napoleon Hill in that quote.

Jordan Whelan: I’m glad you brought it up because I’m extremely into metaphysics, quantum mechanics.

I think that’s a huge part of when people talk about marketing as a lawyer, their subconscious reprogramming, do they think what’s possible? And even just reality shifting, right? Moving to a new timeline matter. I’m obsessed with all this stuff, so I would just [00:02:00] counter it by saying yes, everything starts with the mind.

Yeah. Every moment even your reticular activating system, when you get into a certain mindset, some people talk about the game where it’s the red car. If you think about a red car and you tell yourself about a red car, you’ll see red cars all day long.

Narrator: Yeah.

Jordan Whelan: And it works that way with business.

If you see yourself as someone who’s struggling, you’ll see that reflected to you in the outside world constantly.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. The subconscious has so much to do with how we live our lives and how we behave, and how we, have a positive attitude, a positive outlook on things. And, lawyers get a bad rap in some ways because they’re, perfectionists, because they’re risk averse.

There are some that are, negative and I think there’s gotta be ways that they, and I work with that. Most of my clients aren’t negative, they’re positive, everybody gets in a funk. What do you do when you get in a funk?

Jordan Whelan: I meditate a great deal. I meditate an hour a day, and people think it’s just about relaxing and stress management.

No, it’s about conquering the thoughts. The thoughts, and to run the show. You cannot move from one quantum existence of point A, that you’re a lawyer that has a. 20 person law firm and you want [00:03:00] to get to that 200 person law firm. You can’t move between that. If you continue to buy into the story of person A, which is the old you, which is formed by your childhood society, maybe everything from getting too involved in, establishment thinking credential is a certain rigid way of thinking.

And that’s the biggest thing for me. That’s. As important to me as going to the gym.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I do TM and that meditation is, it’s thinking about nothing. It’s meditating where you empty your head of thoughts. Is that what you’re talking about? Or are you do, are there things that help you as you’re meditating to think of things or to control your mind in a way that gets.

That’s more productive.

Jordan Whelan: I’m trying to basically release them. A lot of people, they think when a thought comes in, oh, I don’t want that thought. I don’t wanna think about that. Don’t do that because you’re energizing it and you’re resisting it and you’re basically latching onto it. I use it as a way of treating the thoughts like clouds that can flow by.

And for me, I come from, a lot of trauma in my youth, a lot of overthinking. And so I’m someone who has to work actively to not. Glom [00:04:00] onto these thoughts that are destructive and let them go by. And as time goes by and you shift into being a new person, the thoughts get quieter.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

But you guys didn’t think we were gonna get so deep, so fast. But it happens sometimes on this show, and that’s okay. We’re gonna be getting deep and we’re gonna be going wide and doing the whole thing. I’ve got. Jordan Wheeland here he is the president of Gray Smoke Media. And give us a little background you mentioned troubled youth and then, obviously you’ve overcome a lot in your life.

So catch us up on how you came to be running a media company.

Jordan Whelan: Yeah I started early twenties. I worked in television and radio. I had a newspaper call. I was a producer, all things media, very circuitous journey. And in my late twenties, I would say mid twenties, I started working with a law firm in Toronto called Diamond and Diamond.

At the time they were probably 25 people. Over the past decade, I’ve basically grown ’em to be the largest personal injury firm in the country and the largest real estate law firm in the country. I also grew the largest divorce firm in Toronto. Great Smoke media used to be a generalized marketing firm where we would bring all these [00:05:00] elements of media and SERPs and digital marketing and all this stuff.

I learned from being an auto didact. But over the past two years, I really niched it down to just serve lawyers. In some ways they tend to actually be a great client if you can find the right ones. Because A, they’re billing so they’re distracted. They’re not boring you with their emotionalism and trauma, which I love of that.

Steve Fretzin: Okay.

Jordan Whelan: Secondly, I get the right ones, the right talking

Steve Fretzin: to divorce attorneys too much.

Jordan Whelan: I’ve had a couple with a criminal attorney. Oh my

Steve Fretzin: God. They gotta have, they gotta be, they like stone, those people.

Jordan Whelan: I used to have a defense lawyer as a client and he used to call me for three minutes a month. And I loved it because it was all about the numbers and I was, that’s what I meant too.

Yeah. I just wanna say, Hey, you’re up four x, I made you this amount of money. Great, thanks. Bye. So they tend to be great clients, that space is, it needs a lot of disruption and the type of people that go into this space with an open mind and are creative, left and right brain tend to do really well.

And so that’s how I changed my [00:06:00] agency to be the only all in one legal marketing for lawyers who can come to us from. Media buying and SEO, reputation management, social media, a one-stop shop instead of hiring four agencies with a lack of symbiosis.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So we’ve got lawyers that are solos.

We’ve got small firm, we’ve got big firm and everything in between, every practice area. So when we talk about marketing, we have to be a little bit careful because, SEO to some is might be a foreign language and et cetera. So let’s talk about marketing generally and what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see lawyers making?

In investing in marketing, or just trying to do marketing?

Jordan Whelan: The biggest mistake is their website. That needs to be when you’re starting infancy stage, that needs to be, everything needs to go into that. And I don’t just mean technically, I don’t just mean mobile, optimized speed, et cetera. The feelings that it evokes when I load your website.

If I’m a woman and there’s 12 guys in on the main rotator, then I don’t see myself represented. That might be something that might be the fonts that you use. Also what’s crazy [00:07:00] is some people will operate at a law firm for 15 years and not know their unique value proposition.

Narrator: Yeah.

Jordan Whelan: They think that they’re interesting enough on their own.

They think that, I’m doing well. And it’s that’s great, but if you want to get to that final echelon, what are you selling? What do you, what do people feel? And then the second thing I would say is investing marketing spend for ego. A lot of realtors are guilty of this.

Buying a billboard just so your friends see it. Buying a billboard without thinking about the creative, making it too complex. I’m driving by for three seconds in my car and I look at your billboard. I might have only have time to remember the website that you have up or the phone number.

I don’t have time for a lot of. So I think it’s a lot of the time and the lawyers that do well aren’t guilty of this. It’s thinking that they know better. It’s thinking that they don’t need to be deferential to a marketing agency. Because they did well in law school and they’re known as the, they’re smarter than the average bear.

And I think there’s, if you can humbly look into, look into another agency and say, Hey, I don’t know what I don’t know, [00:08:00] can you tell me? And I finally know, I credit Diamond with that. They hired people that knew what they were talking about and they knew when to be quiet and listen.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. What are like a few aspects of the buyer persona or identifying. You know who you should be marketing to because I can market to everybody, or I could market to, rich, white males that are in do this, that and the other type of industry. How do people figure out, like what are some things they should be looking into to identify where they should be spending money based on their buyer persona?

Jordan Whelan: So it depends on the type of law, right? Personal injury law, if it’s at the highest level, you don’t really wanna market to the person making 250 grand a year because they’re in a social circle where they’re gonna get a recommendation. Personal injury law tends to market to blue collar a lot because there’s a lot of income loss.

If I am the brick layer who can’t use my hands now for 25 years, there’s my income loss. That tends to be the one kind of market. What’s interesting about divorce law in itself is that 70% of [00:09:00] divorces are initiated by women. And so I had a client that was the divorce lawyer running radio ads. We ran them on a female dominated station and we ran them at a time we found out.

By doing our own research, we found that peop couples fight the most at around eight o’clock before they go to work. And so we ran ads solely between that window to target women, which was interesting. I can’t speak much to every single kind of area of law specifically, but I think if you run into a lot of people try to appeal to everyone.

I don’t think that really works. If you’re gonna sit in that elite echelon of top lawyers you need to stick there. And with personal injury law, you can go in a little more. Wide ranging because everyone gets injured and it’s recession proof industry. But it really just depends on the type of lawyer.

Yeah. But I would say like when I load your website, what do I feel? And to me, that’s huge.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I think also the website, what’s the call to action like? All right. I feel that this is a place of expertise, a place that can help me, a place that gets me like they’re [00:10:00] targeted to me and I’m feeling something.

Then how do they do at that conversion? What are some conversion best practices that you’re seeing now that maybe weren’t around 10 years ago?

Jordan Whelan: Some great ones that I do for clients is, and again, if you’re talking about smaller people who don’t have big budget, little things they can do micro offers.

So I come to your website and I am personal injury case value estimator divorce readiness checklist. PDFs that you can give to people. That’s a huge thing. The other thing that’s you can do on a small level if you’re just a small law firm is you can just make videos. Everyone has an iPhone.

Everyone has a personality. We’re talking all day long. Almost. Yeah. Let’s not go crazy. Yeah. Those people would be quickly left behind, let’s say. But little things like making specific videos, with AI and the emergence of ai, I always say what’s gonna counter AI is humanness. So if you lean into what makes you human, what makes your law firm human, what makes you’re using your client’s stories.

That’s how you connect with people, and that’s something that’s not gonna fall to the wayside over [00:11:00] the next little while.

Narrator: Yeah. But

Jordan Whelan: even there’s cheap ways to get clients. I think of it like this, there’s tons of inroads to your website. Yes. There’s SEO yes. There’s ad words that yes, there’s social media, but when I search you, a Reddit thread comes up and maybe you haven’t responded to something that someone said there, and it’s turned off 500 people.

Have you got on Quora? Have you responded to questions on Quora? Have you linked back to your website? Have you got the LinkedIn? There’s so many inroads that are coming into your website that you might not even think of. YouTube comments respond to those people just don’t think of the cheap ways to generate traffic.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I think that’s a good direction to go down because I, there are people that have massive budgets for. Websites, SEO pay-per-click, big campaigns, millions of dollars. And there’s people in the B2B space and the B2C space that would prefer to be on a shoestring because I think there’s some things that have leveled the playing field, right?

Social media, video. Where I used to do three camera shoots with makeup and lights and the whole thing to get a video on YouTube. [00:12:00] And today, screw that. It’s Zoom and my iPhone. What are a couple of, I dunno if we wanna call them hacks or just inexpensive ways for lawyers to get business in the door or to at least build their work on building their brand?

Jordan Whelan: One of the great ones if we’re talking video is, it’s called geo stacking. So it’s something what you can do if you’re making short videos you can target them for different neighborhoods. TikTok and all, when we talk about SEO in general, it’s really important for people to remember.

It’s not just Google. People think SEO O is just Google. No. All these search bars on all these platforms are now acting like Google YouTube Bar tiktoks are showing up in Google results. So you always have to optimize for specific things. And if you’re a lawyer and you wanna make videos about. What to do after a car accident and you’re a lawyer in California, you would make different videos.

What do I have a case for my car accident in San Diego, California? Next one. I just got hit by a motorcycle in Oceanside, California, and it’s gonna pop up for all of those. And it’s so important to remember with SEO, like that, traffic’s always there. So if you’re in a [00:13:00] niche where there’s 200,000 searches per month for motorcycle accidents in Southern California, whatever it is.

That traffic’s going somewhere right now, it’s going to your competitors. So whether you pick that, 20% of that up on Google, 5% of it up on TikTok, there’s this massive interplay going on now where you really have to be everywhere. Unfortunately, and it doesn’t have to be so daunting for small lawyers, you can get a, there’s programs like Metric Cool where you record a 62nd video, it’ll post it to Pinterest, YouTube threads, Facebook, TikTok, all those, and you’re just picking up traffic from all those platforms for $15 a month membership.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

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I just set up to get a second podcast going and the production company that’s gonna help me do this podcast. One of their main platforms is Metric. Cool. So for every, 20 minute podcast they do, they’re gonna have 15, 20, 30 videos and blog posts and all kinds of stuff that they’re able to create around ai, their team metric.

Cool. And I think there used to be, Hootsuite was a thing, but I think the problem with Hootsuite was, it’s for posting on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, all this stuff. But now everything needs to be customized for that [00:16:00] particular. Brand of social media. And I don’t think Hootsuite, at least initially, was doing that.

And I don’t know, does Metrical do that?

Jordan Whelan: Metrical does it. And also with metrical, you want to be optimizing your title to think could this also end up in search results, like I was mentioning, right? Be very careful about the title that you’re using because not only will you get pickup traffic on TikTok, which isn’t the best by the way.

It’s not the best place for lead generation for lawyers. At the end of the day, social media doesn’t compare to SEO for lawyers. It just doesn’t. But that being said, if that very TikTok about that niche topic about. I just got served with divorce papers. What do I do? If that’s gonna show up? Google results.

If you title it properly, take the time to figure out how am I gonna title this properly and do different videos for each sub niche, right? Not just cities. I got diverse divorce papers in New York, but also do them. I’m a woman who just got this, I’m a man who just got this. I’m a father who got this. That traffic is all is there.

It’s hundreds [00:17:00] of thousands of searches. And even if you’re a small law firm, this is something that might take you an hour per week just to do.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I think, again, we, as we discussed from the beginning, like B2C different than B2B, plaintiff side, defense side, and I’m working with a lot of IP attorneys and lit and commercial litigators and m and a and all these different areas where they’re not gonna do SEO, they’re at a firm and I think that social media and video and thought leadership and writing and speaking and networking and Right, there’s all this stuff that they have to do differently then.

The pay to play model or just the, the content driven, SEO model, which is exhausting. And by the way, most people should delegate anyway.

Jordan Whelan: Yeah. And the SEO model, by the way, doesn’t, isn’t just a content driven model. It’s it’s still a backlink model, right? So for people don’t know on a basic level, backlink, it’s just a site from another site to yours.

The more authoritative that site is, say it’s bloomberg.com, CNN linking into you, the higher you’re gonna rank in search results. Yeah. That is still a massive factor. And so you [00:18:00] have to remember, if you’re going up against a competitor who’s spending 15 grand a month, these big firms in Miami, Los Angeles PI firms are spending 20, 25 a month on SEO, which is how much you need to spend.

You don’t, you’re not gonna get anywhere. Frankly. You can beat them on the smaller keywords, but on the bigger keywords, if they have that much authority already, you’re in trouble. You’d be better to just go on these other routes like we’re talking, but I still think SEO is absolutely the best psychologically, and I don’t think anything will compare to it.

If you’re just spending money on AdWords every month and trying to outbid your competitor, you’re not gonna get anywhere.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah you might get somewhere, there’s people making, a billion dollars doing it. So there are people making money doing that. I think it’s just aggravating that you’re having to continue to pay this massive fee to get the business in versus SEO, which you pay a big fee to get it going, but.

Ultimately, you’re not paying per click, you’re getting the clicks because you did the hard work on the backend,

Jordan Whelan: but it’s also what is your value when you go to sell. Because if you say, we get the, we spend [00:19:00] 25,000 a month on a AdWords. We get this and I say, Hey, I’ve built an SEO funnel over the past 10 years.

It generates 1.5 million a year. When you go into your multiple to sell, that’s a massive asset. So it’s like renting a home versus buying a Yeah, I like that analogy.

Steve Fretzin: That’s really good.

Jordan Whelan: Yeah, it’s really important. So I think if you’ve built up your, the actual authority of your site and invested X amount of dollars, and then you say, Hey, this is, it’s not just also the, your SEO, this is the, their main, SEO local SEO is not going away with ai.

Your local SEO, I optimized one of my client’s local SEO pages for three offices. We generated almost a hundred thousand a month in new business. Just by doing that over a period of 30 days, that side of SEO is not going away. So if I go to sell my business and I say these three, Google my business locations are so well optimized that they’re driving this many calls and this many leads per month.

That person says, oh, the work’s already done for me. I can just scale up another way.

Steve Fretzin: So then what’s your, you brought it up, so I’m gonna pick on it. I, [00:20:00] and I’ve asked a number of marketing people this, and everybody’s given me a different answer, which is fine because there’s no way to predict the future perfectly at this stage.

But. How, SEO pay-per-click, Google, Bing, all the different ways that people are getting found and they’re paying lots and lots of money and creating lots and lots of content. And then you’ve got this thing, AI that’s come into its own where I know like it’s completely changed how I am searching for things, how I’m looking up things, how I’m utilizing, the internet differently than I was even six months ago.

And I think it’s gonna get exponentially. More, involved as we go. Everyone thinks that and believes that, but isn’t that gonna affect the way that people are searching on Google to find a personal injury divorce attorney? Not at all. Not on the

Jordan Whelan: local level. Not on the local level, so if I’m in San Diego, California and I’m looking car accident lawyers, San Diego, car accident lawyer, Del Mar car, all the surrounding counties.

That can’t go away. ’cause largely that’s done through Google Maps. That’s what shows up when I actually search. Yeah. I’m not [00:21:00] using chat GPT right now for that. And it’s also pulling from that when you ask it for, Hey, I just got hit in San Diego. I need a lawyer. So I say, put your resources into that right now because that is, again, I told my one client about a million dollars easy in new business.

I would say lean into that. And then on the AI side of things, you want to lean into how you want to start ranking for how people actually talk. Yeah, we used to rank for these specific keywords, car accident lawyer, but things like have just been in a car accident. I just broke my leg. Can I get a lawyer?

That’s how it’s pulling. It’s pulling that natural language. And then there’s technical things like schema markup, which I won’t bore people we do. You say what? Exactly. It’s like another language at this point, but like I said earlier, hearkening back to that, it’s what makes you human. It’s gonna make you win out.

If you are spinning your competitor’s content with an AI program and they’re doing the same to you, your blogs aren’t gonna rank. But if you are a law firm that talks about your clients and their stories and leans into that and finds compassion, a computer’s not gonna be [00:22:00] able to eclipse that.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Because I know, like I’m thinking about, I’m going to Chet, GBT, I’m searching, I want a personal injury attorney for a slip and fall in, Highland Park, Illinois, who you know is, easy to talk to, is gonna be aggressive when they need to be. I’m like typing in as long form. Search that I’m hoping will give me then the best result as opposed to a ton of ads, and then a ton of people that are in Chicago and Lincolnwood and all these different places.

And you have to filter through 20, 30, 40 people to figure out, I just want, give me the answer. And I feel like that’s the direction it’s headed.

Jordan Whelan: Yeah. And it’s gonna pull based on authority signals. So for someone like you doing a podcast like this, it’s gonna say, oh, I see video content everywhere.

I see articles, I see a social media following. I see it’s actually ranking iner, which means there’s a lot of back links, which is also authority, so it’s still pulling from the people [00:23:00] that are updating content regularly are on social media, have big back links. You still have to be out there doing things to rank.

It’s the same sort of game as Google. It’s just a little bit different in that sense. But, but is it, is that gonna

Steve Fretzin: mess up the people who aren’t doing these things now and in the past? They’re just gonna totally get lost at that point. They’re gonna be

Jordan Whelan: left even farther behind.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Jordan Whelan: Because now they, now there’s one beast and now there’s a second beast. But both those beasts are feeding from the same thing, which is general authority and activity.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. In the

Jordan Whelan: online landscape. So someone’s

Steve Fretzin: never written an article, they’ve never done a video, they’ve never put themselves out there in any real way.

And the only way that they can get found is through word of mouth. Other than that, they’re gonna be dead in the water.

Jordan Whelan: So they’re better served by sponsoring a local hockey team or getting on the radio and running some ads because in that specific sphere where they’re trying to compete.

They’re probably gonna need $500,000 to start.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. Alright, so let’s wrap up with things that I know people are very [00:24:00] interested in and that revolves around the alignment between how we expand and drive wealth and grow and also, keep control of like our spend and control of our time because that’s really what’s hurting is people don’t wanna spend time and money, but.

They’re, but they also want to grow. And so there’s, I don’t know, there’s no right answer for that, but what’s your take on that and how would you recommend people go forward?

Jordan Whelan: I’m big on metaphysics and I’m big on not going into the external world that’s in front of me and trying to fix things that this is more of an internal game.

If you look at quantum mechanics, everything’s particles, electrons, photons, we know that we’re basically collapsing probabilities into different realities. The what you want to do to shift realities. And I say this by the way, as someone who was sick for 18 years with a chronic illness that I was told that I couldn’t cure, that I cured in 60 days, and someone who launched a music career with no experience doing really well, the way I did those things is I assumed a new state of being and I [00:25:00] essentially moved into a different reality.

We live in infinite realities. We can shift. If you are a law lawyer, and this is gonna sound woo to a lot of people, but the people that it clicks for and read Napoleon Hill or Neville Goddard and stuff like that will get, this is moving from point A to point B is a quantum shift. It’s not so much about your marketing spend, it’s about living and becoming the new person, and then the 3D reality as a reflection of you essentially has to catch up to you.

So I do a lot of metaphysical coaching with lawyers and stuff like that, who think they need to always go into the outside world and make it work without resolving what is an internal game. If you have subconscious beliefs that money is evil, that you’ll never make it, that life doesn’t work out for you, and that’s the emanation of frequency that’s coming from your heart every day and your heart chakra.

Good luck trying to make it happen in this outside world. Internal game is more important than any of the things that you and I just talked about 30 minutes. So I help people on a quantum level move into new [00:26:00] realities and understand that, how that works on a level. And it’s difficult to grasp at first,

Steve Fretzin: but gimme one example of something that you would coach a lawyer on to bring out their inner best self.

Jordan Whelan: Vivid visualization. The way you move into from point A to point B is you’ve vividly visualized the new environment. As if, look at Bob Proctor. All these people talked about this in the seventies. You visualize it. If it’s now you feel what it would feel like, the emails that you would get, the calls that you would get, and then you detach, and you should be doing this in a calm, relaxed state in meditation.

So if I’m a lawyer and I could find a way to make 20 minutes a day, I would tell them to basically get into a calm, relaxed state. Visualize the reality they wanna move into as if it’s happening now in all their senses. And then what you do is you detach. You do not wait for it. You do not constrict the energy.

You do not desperately look for evidence. You relax and let it come to you. This is actually Hermetics cabal. This is what the elites at [00:27:00] the highest level know. This is what they were trained when they were younger. And I didn’t learn this stuff till about two years ago, but. It’s how I launched a music career out of nowhere.

It’s how I cured my illness. And it’s largely because the mind is everything. The mind is powerful and you are shifting into a new reality and you do it billions of times a day and you don’t even realize you’re doing it. So you might as well take control of it.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and I’m a believer in that, not in my example, would be another book called the MINDBODY Prescription.

I dunno if you know that book. Dr. Sarno, who passed I think a few years ago, basically said, the mind is so powerful that it would rather give you physical things to deal with than dealing with your mental issues, right? You’re not mental issues like your psycho, but like mental problems. Like you’ve got stuff inside of you that is unresolved or that you know you’re dealing with.

Geez, it’s sure easier to deal with. My knee hurts, I’m gonna go to the doctor and look at my knee versus dealing with. But to me, I know that when I have lower back pain or when I, it moves to my neck for no reason. Other than, we could say stress, that it’s [00:28:00] really in my head that it’s, there’s no injury that occurred.

It’s really No,

Jordan Whelan: It’s disharmonious thought patterns.

Steve Fretzin: There we go. It’s actually, we go, what’s going

Jordan Whelan: on? I don’t think it’s. I think what presents in the physical body is evidence of something else going on. And you can dig into that.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And it doesn’t mean there isn’t real injuries, it doesn’t mean people aren’t hurting or don’t have bad backs and discs and all kinds of stuff.

There’s real illness and real stuff and, but there’s also a lot of people that, aren’t dealing with the mental game and it’s affecting them physically.

Jordan Whelan: And also, can I just add one thing here? Yeah. Please. Right before, right after people get diagnosed, and I say this to someone who had a bowel disease for 18 years.

Your disease tends to get very really bad in the months following the diagnosis. And the reason that is, is because you’re in it, so you’re directing all your energy into it. You’re on the forums, you’re telling people, and you’re basically shifting your awareness into a reality in which it’s worse and worse.

The people that shift their awareness into healing or healed, or it’s going to be okay, perform way better. And that’s the placebo effect. And that’s why monks can go in the mountains of the [00:29:00] Himalayas and, meditate in for 15 minutes and not die when the rest of us would that just prove how much you are creating your own reality and powerful.

Steve Fretzin: Where I’m going and I’ve got a new segment, what used to be called Jordan’s big mistake. It’s now called Failing Forward. Give me an example of a time where you failed forward.

Jordan Whelan: I would say all times before I understood that effect. Up to two years ago. Up to two years ago, my entire life, I would say yes. I would say I was not cognizant of frequency, vibration, energy for most of my life, and the biggest way people fail is not understanding that there’s so much more going on than your AdWord spend.

That you are creating your reality and aligning your energy with specific people that come into your reality. You can attract into your reality people and events that don’t vibrationally re you’re not in vibrational residents with. And so that’s how I failed, is being too desperate or needy. With clients or wanting it too [00:30:00] bad or holding on too tight, or also living in the past.

Yeah. That is the hugest thing for people. They find comfort in the past and their ego wants to keep ’em there because it’s familiar and that’s the job of the ego. Yeah. But it’s amazing if you just do a 3, 2, 1 countdown and act like you have no past, no future, and live from that moment, how peaceful your day is.

Steve Fretzin: I love that. That’s a great way to wrap things up, man. I appreciate that. Let’s take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors legal Verse Media, everybody, uh.com. Check them out, international online publication, lots and lots of content, ways to interact with other lawyers. We’ve got the PIM Con Conference coming up in Scottsdale, Arizona at the Phoenician Hotel.

I’ll be on stage talking podcasts with some amazing experts. Then of course, the law, her podcast, Sonya Palmer, putting out content making it amazing for women. Jordan, people wanna get in touch with you. They want to hear more about gray smoke media. They want to get into their inner selves and figure some shit out.

Best way to reach you,

Jordan Whelan: Gray smoke media.com at GREY smoke [00:31:00] media.com. You can book an introductory call complimentary or 30 minutes paid.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, man, thank you so much. Is there a book too that gets into some of the meat and potatoes of the mind game that you really love?

Jordan Whelan: God, there’s so many. I love them all.

I love the cabal and that’s one of my favorite books. But I would say, you know what? Honestly, go on YouTube because I don’t this is a little depressing. I don’t like to give books out nowadays. ’cause people’s attention spans have dwindled on the goldfish level Whatcha

Steve Fretzin: talking about?

Jordan Whelan: So yeah, exactly.

So go on YouTube and there’s a tons of videos, but I would look into the law of assumption. I don’t believe in the law of attraction. Look into the law of assumption, how you can shift from one reality to the next. I do a little bit of coaching on my end, but I, by no means am I an expert. I would check that out and I will tell you that like it’s magical.

It really is magical. Yeah. Once you start to understand it.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And I’m a big fan of micro learning. People that can go into YouTube and not just doom scroll and not just waste time and watch crap. I can watch cat videos too, like anybody, they’re fun, but ultimately what can I learn in this time?

Because, there’s just more that you can pick up these days than just ever [00:32:00] before, so use it. Same thing with this podcast. Be that lawyer, everybody, you know on YouTube, we’ve got books, we’ve got articles on above the law. We’ve got everything cooking here and the new podcast coming out soon.

So I’ll make sure you guys know about that. Jordan, thanks so much, man. This was great. I met you and I was excited to have you on. I knew that this was gonna be a different kind of interview and that’s a good thing, right? We want to hear different people’s opinions and different people’s thoughts and how they made it happen.

And certainly there are no disappointment on that today with you.

Jordan Whelan: Thanks, Steve. I really appreciate you having me on.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. And thank you everybody for hanging out with Jordan and I for about a half an hour. We had boy, a lot to cover. And hopefully you got some good takeaways, not only on marketing, but about the mind game of life.

Hopefully it’s helping you guys to continue to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. To be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit steve’s website [00:33:00] Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.