Viktoria Altman: Stop Random Acts of Marketing and Start Getting Clients

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Viktoria Altman discuss:

• Risk and mindset in legal marketing
• How to evaluate and choose marketing vendors
• Niche focus and ideal client definition as a growth strategy
• The emerging impact of AI on search, ads, and brand identity

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers should stop chasing random acts of marketing and instead copy proven tactics used by competitors who serve the same client profile and budget.
• Vet agencies should ask to speak with their clients in the same practice area and budget bracket and avoid unrealistically low-priced proposals.
• Concentrate marketing spend on one prioritized niche or ideal client profile first, then expand once that channel is sustainably profitable.
• AI-driven search will increasingly assemble a practitioner’s brand from published content and reviews, shifting the long game toward owned content (transcripts, guest posts, reviews) and away from manipulable paid placements.

“If you are doing anything on social media, it has to come from your heart.” —  Viktoria Altman
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About Viktoria Altman: Viktoria Altman is the founder and CEO of BSPE Legal Marketing, a digital agency dedicated to helping attorneys boost visibility in both AI-driven and traditional search results. Beyond her role as a business leader, Viktoria is also the voice behind the Law Firm Accelerator Podcast and a sought-after keynote speaker, specializing in topics at the intersection of artificial intelligence and digital marketing.

At BSPE Legal Marketing, the mission is clear: to generate qualified, conversion-ready leads that connect lawyers directly with their ideal clientele.

As an experienced public speaker, Viktoria has presented at prestigious venues such as the New York City Bar Association, served as a guest lecturer at Arizona State University and National University’s JFK School of Law, and shared her insights on search engine optimization at the SEO Mastery Summit in Saigon.

Drawing from her practical experience as an entrepreneur, Viktoria has honed a proven system to enhance websites, fine-tune AI-based strategies, and support small law firms in staying competitive. Her overarching goal is to empower attorneys to grow thriving, future-ready practices while maintaining the personal well-being and balance they deserve.
Connect with Viktoria Altman:

Website: https://bsplegalmarketing.com

Email: viktoria@bsplegalmarketing.com

Show: Law Firm Accelerator: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/law-firm-accelerator/id1760159502

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/viktoria-altman/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/viktoria.tralala

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/traveltipster/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey everyone. If you’re looking to forge high value client connections, build visibility, and grow your book of business, I have an event for you. It’s be That Lawyer Live and it’s August 27th, bringing you authentic stories and actionable strategies from four top rainmakers, just 39 bucks. Plus all my free ebook collection coming your way.

It’s one hour 15 minutes, massive value. Reserve your spot today, Fretzin.com/event.

Narrator: You are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Reson, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Welcome back. It’s Steve [00:01:00] Fretzin and this. Is the Be That Lawyer podcast. We are here for your listening pleasure and viewing pleasure and reading pleasure. Depending on what and how you’re getting this, you can check out Above the Law. We put some of our videos up there. I also write a monthly column.

We’ve got the podcast channels. Any platform you’re on, we’ve got YouTube channel. We’ve got our website, Fretzin.com. Be that lawyer.com. We are good to go for you. And today I’ve got Victoria waiting in the wings. How you doing? Hey Steve. Great to be here. All right, you ready to rock and roll? I am always ready to rock and roll.

You are gonna teach us all about marketing something we’ve never discussed on the show before. I am here to share as much useful information as I possibly can.

Viktoria Altman: Alright, within the time

Steve Fretzin: limit. Alright. We reviewed the questions ahead of time and everyone that I, every question I threw at you, you’re like, no problem.

So we’re gonna see, we’re gonna play it out, but I’m excited about it ’cause you, you have a confidence that I think this, that’s necessary for this kind of show. So let’s start off with our quote of the show. The best way to predict the future is to create it. The infamous Peter Drucker. So [00:02:00] welcome to the show and tell us a little bit about that quote.

Viktoria Altman: I do think that if you work really hard and you keep your eyes very open and you keep attuned to everything that’s going on, you can help create the future, even if the future is moving so quickly as it is right now, where things seem to be moving very quickly. You can still participate in the creation of it, but you just have to be aware and awake.

For everything that’s happening.

Steve Fretzin: And it’s not like the future doesn’t mean the earth and everybody on it. I think the future can be our future and the future of our clients, the future of, our circles and our, the places where we are. My personal thing is between, the writing and the podcast and all this stuff I’m gonna be gone someday and I want my legacy other than my son to be.

You know that I help change the legal industry and make it a better place. So I’m really the predict, my prediction and what I work for every day is that. Is there something, do you feel that same way in the marketing space that you’re doing similar work?

Viktoria Altman: I do feel that [00:03:00] because of, I’m on the edge of the tech right now.

I work with some of the smartest people in the world. I’m able to participate in how we actually use the technology that way, and create our future with it. I do feel like, because I have a lot of, I’m doing some tests and I really participate in the process of creating our

Steve Fretzin: future marketing tech.

Yeah. We’re gonna get into, let’s go back to the beginning though. Everybody. Victoria Altman is the founder of BSP Legal Marketing. And give us a little background. ’cause I don’t think, I’m intrigued by your travel background too, like that’s so exciting to me. Like my dream is to do what you’ve already done.

But give us a little bit of how you came to be.

Viktoria Altman: Yeah. So I’m actually serial entrepreneur. I’ve never had a real job. I opened my first business when I was 12, and so in March, 2020, I was actually a professional travel blogger. And when I noticed what was happening and this goes back to create the future you want because it was very obvious to me what [00:04:00] was happening.

Travel blogging was not going to be a good way to make money for a while. And rather than fight against the world and fight against the circumstances, I embraced it and I opened up a business that I felt would be much more session proof and. Remote proof, right? Working with lawyers, you’ll always need lawyers no matter what’s happening in the world.

So that was how I came to open BSP Legal Marketing.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Very cool. And here’s a question we didn’t cover that I’m gonna ask you. And this one I know you can’t answer. Your favorite city.

Viktoria Altman: Oh, New York City, obviously. Oh, shoot. That was too easy for you.

Steve Fretzin: No European cities. That is New York. That’s the big Apple.

Viktoria Altman: I New York is New York. New York is home. New York is the bomb. If you can make it here.

Steve Fretzin: They say you can make it anywhere. Did you wanna live anywhere? Why would you wanna

Viktoria Altman: live anywhere else? Okay.

Steve Fretzin: All right. Wow. All right. I have to make it out to New York. I’ve been saying that for six months, but I have so many wonderful relationships in New York and we’ll see if I can drag my wife out there.

But [00:05:00] ultimately that’s that. I gotta get back to New York. You’re right. It’s a good place. So let’s talk about marketing and this is, business development, marketing, the business of law is lost on a lot of attorneys and not the attorneys that listen to this and watch this show because they’re here, because they’re in the game.

But what do you see lawyers as missing the mindset or that maybe they don’t have the mindset of marketing and they just see it as either an expense or they just don’t engage?

Viktoria Altman: I would say there are two things. First one is lawyers tend to be a bit more on the conservative side, so they’re afraid to take a risk.

They feel that. Things are working okay, maybe not great, but working okay and a risk is a risk and you might lose a lot of money, and that’s a problem. The second thing I see a lot is people who jump from risk to risk and they are trying a little social media, they’re trying a little SEO, they try this agency, they try that agency instead of finding something that [00:06:00] already works for their competitors.

With the type of marketing you should be doing. Honestly, the easiest thing to do is just do whatever works for your competitors. And also really narrowing down to the kind of work they need done, it sounds like what we call

Steve Fretzin: In the biz, random acts of marketing. I like that. I’ve never heard that before, but I guess, yeah.

Now you’re in, now you’re in the biz lingo with me. All right. We’ll have some fun with that. But no, in, random acts of marketing, the way that it’s discussed on this show and with people in my world is. I attend a conference. I tried some LinkedIn, ads, I did this, I did, and just poke around at things.

For me, it has been what you’ve said. I’ve tried this agency that cost me 20 grand, got no results. Then I did, oh, now I’m gonna get into this. And then I did, it’s 25 grand and that didn’t work. And I try to qualify. I try to, make sure that I’m making a good buying decision, that it’s right for me.

Everybody says it’ll work. Everyone says it’ll, don’t worry. Leave it to me. This is my thing. It [00:07:00] can be very frustrating for lawyers, and I think one of the reasons that they are risk averse is because they’ve been burned and it’s problematic. What are some things that they should be doing to best qualify that something is for them and how to evaluate it to make sure that they get or potentially could get the results?

Viktoria Altman: First of all, that’s a very fair criticism of my industry. We are in an industry that is completely unregulated, and I will be very honest with you. I am insulted by the work that a lot of people I see are doing. It’s one of the reasons why I speak so much is because. I talk at events to explain to lawyers what they should be looking for, what the red flags are.

And it is completely fair that people are frustrated and people get taken for a ride. I’m a hundred percent yeah, but in order to avoid that to an extent, what you really want to do is when you speak with an agency, you want to ask them for clients who are in the same price range as you so have been spending the same amount of money.

You [00:08:00] have been spending and are in the same position as you, so they’re in the same, if you’re in a state lawyer, I wanna speak to estate lawyer clients. If you are in the suburbs, I wanna speak at suburb clients, you wanna compare apples to apples as much as possible. You wanna just have a conversation with them and are you okay, as in this person is maybe the best you’ve tried out of very bad ones, or are I have clients who are like, I bought a house thanks to you, or and I’m not here to promote myself, but like clients who are just so thrilled.

You want to look for thrill, right? Yeah. And yeah. You don’t want to look for,

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Just, okay. I had a lunch with a guy. This is going way, way back, and I had been in the legal industry for maybe a year or two, but pe I was starting to get known for it. And this guy meets with me because he’s in marketing and I’m in business development, and together we can do some magic.

So I, we had this lovely lunch and I asked him, I go, Hey, outta curiosity I wasn’t able to really see any of the law firms that you’ve worked with on your website. Who are some of the law firms you work with? Maybe I know some people there. He goes that’s confidential. We don’t really share [00:09:00] that.

And I said, so confidentially, you know who’s or gimme a name, gimme something. He goes, no, we, that’s part of our non-disclosure. We don’t do that. I immediately called BS and said to myself, this guy is not in legal marketing. What he’s trying to do is he’s trying, either he is a terrible marketer and he is trying to get business or.

He’s done everything else but legal and he is trying to get into legal through me, which is fine. If he had just said that from the get go and proven himself out for accountants and dentists and financial planners, I would’ve been fine helping him get into legal, but he didn’t play that card. And of course I never saw him again.

Never heard of him again, and he is probably dead in a ditch. So what you’re saying is so meaningful, and I do that too. Every lawyer I work with has the opportunity, and in fact, I insist that they speak with one or two clients. I think it’s important to not only see the fit from their side, but the fit from my side.

And I get feedback from my clients. This person rescheduled with me three times and was difficult to get in touch with and I’m doing them a favor and I’m like, great, for thanks for telling. First of all, I’m sorry. And second of all, thanks for telling me [00:10:00] that. ’cause this is not someone I’m gonna work with.

Viktoria Altman: Yeah. And I’m also very selective. I just, I think not every agency is gonna be right for every attorney. There are certainly going to be. Cases or, marketing cases that will not be right for me. And I wanna establish that early on. But I think, look, like I said, at least you are a lawyer teaching other lawyers, right?

And you’ve already, you have a level of expertise there. Unfortunately, in my industry, it’s just a free for all this. People could be located anywhere. They could be lying to you. They could tell you they have. Lawyer clients and not have them don’t let people get away with things like that. If you are a legitimate agency, you will have a legitimate answer.

There’s a lot of people we call who are specialized in what we call churn and burn. You get a client, you get as much money outta them as fast as possible, and then you expect them to lead. And that is their entire marketing model. Which is absolutely horrible, it’s just, it’s not the right way to do things, but it’s legal.

Yeah. They’re not technically doing anything

Steve Fretzin: [00:11:00] illegal, so Yeah. But just pissing a lot of people off and getting, again, giving a bad name to the legal marketing and just marketing industry in general. So I love that you have, that you’re looking for a fit and also that you are allowing them to like, Hey, let’s talk with a client or two of mine to make sure that.

The results they have and you’re in a similar situation that it could work for you in a different city.

Viktoria Altman: Yeah. And I will be very specific, like this is the kind of budget they have. You want their results, this is the budget you’re going to need. I love my job, but I don’t have a magic stick. So make sure that when you are hiring agency you specifically tell them, this is the budget.

Let me talk to

Steve Fretzin: clients who have that budget and and how do they know what budget let’s, is it based on the results they’re trying to get? Is it based on they’re just trying to get cases in the door. And is it them telling you, I want 10 cases more a week, and then you’re saying, oh, to get 10 cases a week, and you like work it backwards.

Like how do you play that out?

Viktoria Altman: Yeah. So I will ask them on my exploratory call, what are you [00:12:00] looking for? What are you looking to do? And then I’ll do a presentation for them. And the presentation is very extensive. I actually, I’m the one who does it, it takes about two hours to research one client, which is why, another reason why I’m so specific.

Because I want to understand if I can help them, how I can help them, and how much it’ll cost them. So I will give them a whole, 45 minute presentation. At the end I’ll say, this is how much this is going to cost. This is why. And yeah, so now they have the information and sometimes people will tell me things like, look, this is just too much.

And I will say, usually they’ll stand on the first call and I’ll say, I get that and I can’t help you. Yeah. The other thing that you really wanna be careful with is if people. Say things like, yes, I’ll do all the work for you for a thousand dollars for $1,500. Those numbers are just not realistic anymore.

Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: I don’t care who you are. My father was always, if it’s too good to be true, it is. He was lawyer risk averse. He’d been burned. He’d been through that. You find a hundred dollars [00:13:00] bill, and expect that there’s gonna be a mousetrap snap in your finger.

Viktoria Altman: Yeah.

You wanna get a couple of quotes from different people and if one of them is very low, ask why.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Viktoria Altman: And it seems like common sense, but I think for a lot of folks, they’re still in the law that for them maybe it’s hard for them to have a big vision marketing picture there.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

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And I noticed that you really also have niched down and you work with a couple of specific practice areas, but my audience is pretty wide ranging. So what are some two or three marketing tips or things that you would recommend for people that maybe have a larger appeal or larger range? Than what a specific, criminal attorney would do to market or for example,

Viktoria Altman: So I would say number one thing is have a. Very good, ideal client defined. Now, it doesn’t have to be just one specific ideal client, right? But it might be if you’re an estate lawyer, a high net worth individual who is 55 to 65 and is married, right? Or it could also be a newly pregnant couple in their thirties.

It could, you could have multiple ideal clients defined, but when you can define those ideal clients for your practice. Then you can promote to them. And I know this goes back to a lot of what you teach as well, [00:16:00] understanding your market. The other thing is, and I don’t know how much you encounter this I do have sometimes lawyers who say, yes, I do this, but I also want to do criminal, but I also want to do this.

I want to do this. I can market anything, but it’s gonna cost you a lot more money. If you want me to market three different areas, pick one. Yeah. And when you’re making money with that, we can, I’m always happy to take more money. You know what I mean? If we spread your budget right now over three different practice areas, you’re not going to get that much for it.

Yeah. You’re just

Steve Fretzin: not. They say the riches are in the niches, figure out maybe so you have two air, three areas that you have. Maybe there’s one that you enjoy more than the others, right? Maybe there’s one that allows you to delegate more work down to your staff than the others, which allows you to keep marketing and business developing and rainmaking, et cetera.

Maybe it’s about spending more time with your family and you’re able to make money and delegate as much as possible. So I think there’s a number of things that are important to consider when. Investing in marketing and, thinking about what type of business you wanna bring in.

Exactly. And

[00:17:00] It all goes

Viktoria Altman: back to the niches. The riches are in the niches, focus on one thing.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And then, you’ve got all these options. There’s SEO pay per click, search engine optimization, everybody pay per click. Ads, which is pay-per-click to some degree, depending on right, different variations.

There’s social media marketing, which has come into its own right and taken over. I do a ton of that. I don’t pay for it. I do it all through natural means. And then there’s, the people could be speaking and writing and all this different stuff. It’s a lot. So how does someone know what they should be focusing on?

Because I don’t think SEO is for everybody,

Viktoria Altman: right? A very good, even though we really do a lot of SEO, a very good example of people who aren’t a good fit for SEO is business to business lawyers, right? Somebody who writes contact. Or help set up corporations is not generally going to be a good client for SEO.

There’s just not that much search. So my advice is to always find people who are already doing the [00:18:00] kind of work you want to be doing with your ideal clients. And they don’t have to be in your market. They don’t have to be in Chicago. They could be in, Miami. Take those people, see what they’re doing, and put a good amount of money and a good amount of effort into that specific thing that they’re doing.

You don’t have to reinvent the

Steve Fretzin: wheel every time. Yeah. So I see there’s another business development coach that’s doing podcasting that I should look further at. Podcasting if I see someone else, and it’s not, you’re not trying to mirror them or you’re trying to like, maybe it’s, the word is emulate.

To some degree you don’t wanna be a copycat. So how do you go into what other people are going and not find that’s too crowded? ’cause that might be the problem is hey, if my competitors are all doing one thing and then I get in there late, then maybe I’m not gonna get the same kinds of results.

Then they get,

Viktoria Altman: it’s all about authenticity as well. If you are doing anything on social media. It has to come from your heart. Now if you’re doing ads and you Google SEO, that’s a marketer is going to do it for you. But if you [00:19:00] decide to do anything when you are interfacing with people, make sure that it’s as authentic to you as possible.

But in general, for mainly B2C type businesses, SEO is going to be the best bang for the buck. If done properly.

Steve Fretzin: Got it. I guess the last sort of topic I want to hit with you, and this has been on the show a few times, but I want to get your take because of your background and where you are with this subject is, there’s a clash or a clash, but also a, an integration of marketing and ai.

So the way that I’m searching right now for just about everything is through chat, GBT. I’m not going to Google and looking at the three pack and the ads. I’m not doing any of that anymore. If I can help it, it’s going to the chat and saying, this is what I want to do, this is what I wanna accomplish, this is what I wanna find, and it’s giving me the curated answers.

That’s maybe a part of it, but how are you seeing AI is it’s, where it’s, where marketing has been, how AI is changing it today, and then where you see it in six months or a year.

Viktoria Altman: I love [00:20:00] this question because I am doing this eight hours a day. I am going to conference, I’m speaking at conferences, so this is very near and dear to my heart.

Steve Fretzin: Alright.

Viktoria Altman: The way AI search works is it’s all about brand. In order to understand who Steve Reim is, what AI models will do is pull information about you from websites they consider valuable. So we did a podcast. I’m going to post the podcast and it’s going to actually include the transcript, and so Google will come to my website and read that entire transcript, and that will now become part of your brand identity, who you are as a brand.

So in order for you to appear as, let’s say, a personal injury attorney in, let’s say New York City, Google is going to go to avo, it’s going to go to FindLaw, it’s going to go maybe to the New York Times. If you were mentioned that the New York Times or another [00:21:00] maybe not such a big press release website, you know you’ll, it’s going to go to guest posts and so it’s going to gather all this information.

And when I ask. New York City personal injury attorney, it’s actually going to not just ask that question, it’s going to say she searched for slip and fold yesterday, so she’s probably looking for slip and fall. And I see she’s located in Brooklyn, so even though she’s saying New York City, maybe she wants Brooklyn.

So it’s actually going to make a lot of assumptions about me based on what it knows about me. And then it’s going to present me with the person who has the most reviews, who has the best ABO profile, who may be. Has a slip and full page, et cetera, et cetera. So it’s a fascinating topic and it’s very exciting to be working on this right now.

Steve Fretzin: All right, so the big question then is what happens to the law firms who are relying solely on pay click ads? That’s how they get their business in the door. They pay the exorbitant fees, millions and millions of dollars a month. Now, this is the new way to [00:22:00] search. Are they able to convert over very easily or is that gonna be sticky?

Wic? Great question.

Viktoria Altman: Google is taking away our ability to manipulate those ads, to edit those ads. They’re doing it more and more automatic, automated. So we still have some ability, but I see that going away. And so here’s what Google wants to do. Google is a for-profit company. They wanna make as much money as possible.

They’re going to make those ads still a little bit profitable, but it’s going to only be a little bit profitable for the end user, right? Because this, let’s say you make. A 10% return on those, ads rather than making a 50% return, right? This way Google can still give you a little bit it’s almost like at the casino, right?

They still give you a little bit, but they keep as much money as possible. Yeah. So ads. Are definitely using AI are going to be working in the favor of the company that’s doing it, and that’s the way business works.

Steve Fretzin: So meaning the different AI [00:23:00] companies, they’re in profit too, so aren’t they then manipulating or gonna try to manipulate it?

So if I’m using chat, GBT, someone else is using a I don’t know what Google’s name, what’s the Google’s. AI pops up on my, when I do go to Google and they’ve, there’s all these different, brands of ai and it’s based, maybe it’s, Harvey or whatever people are using,

Viktoria Altman: right? So Google has its own ads, right?

And if you try to set up an ad inside the ad, you’re going to be given some options for how you can run that a. Now, right now we can say we want this demographic, we want the zip code, et cetera, et cetera. But what they’re doing is they’re removing as much control as possible from the human so that they can decide where to run the ad, how to run the ad to make the most money as the most money possible from you.

So while we have some control now they’re going to take it away. Now, charge GPT is actually based on Bing. So in order to rank a charge GPT right now, very easy, you have to rank on Bing. But [00:24:00] remember, Bing is Microsoft, right? Bing has ads. So it, how long until charge GPT has ads? My guess is not very loan.

But again, they, look they’re just trying to make as much money as possible, I would say. So people are searching

Steve Fretzin: like I am on chat. EBT. Then there should be people advertising on Bing now to get found on the, for people that are starting to search on chat GBT or is that really how that’s gonna work?

Viktoria Altman: Not yet. So right now, if you rank on Bing, if you come up as number one, two, or three on Bing, you will come up high in chat GBT searches. Okay. Because Bing and Micro cha G, PT and Microsoft have a partnership. Eventually I think you’ll be able to advertise on both Bing and Chat GPT.

Steve Fretzin: Okay.

Viktoria Altman: And if I go in and look for personal injury lawyer, I might see an ad on chat GPT at some point in the future.

Steve Fretzin: I guess my thought was gonna be like, how are they gonna make money? The same way that everyone makes money now, it’s a subscription so that eventually Che GBT will be alright. It’s, $50 a month to use it [00:25:00] and therefore you’re gonna get a more balanced and real. Answer response information to make your life better, easier, whatever.

I’m paying 20 a month right now for The plus. Okay. But I can see is, do you think, is that gonna be one of the ways that they monetize this down the road,

Viktoria Altman: which LGBT is losing a ton of money? They’re burning their money, they’re not making any money off those 20 bucks. I would love for it to continue to be paid.

And then you have two options, right? You can have the free with the ads. And the paid, and I think that’s probably what’s going to end up happening. It’ll be more than $28 a month, but I’m happy to pay for it. I know you’re probably happy to pay for

Steve Fretzin: it. Yeah, I would be, if it allowed me to find, like I, you’re in, so I’m gonna throw this out.

I may have said this on the show, I don’t remember, but I want there to be a time where I want to take my wife to Italy and I want to go to, the two main cities. I want it to take care of hotel entertainment, top three restaurants, get me reservations, handle the whole thing for me. And I just click a button and say approve.

That’s how good I want this AI [00:26:00] to be, so that I basically can take a trip and do that. So three days

Viktoria Altman: ago, Chad g PT released, an agent designed to do just, oh man, I got now I haven’t tested it. I don’t know how it, what’s its name that perfect. It’s a Chad GPT agent if you look at it. Okay. And it’s actually designed to make your travel plans or do it, things like that.

Make reservations for you. What do you enjoy? What do you like to eat?

Steve Fretzin: What do you know?

Viktoria Altman: Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s awesome. All right, that’s a bit maybe I’m predicting the future then we’re back to the beginning. Best way to predict the future is to create, I just created it. There you go. Alright, let’s wrap things up with Victoria’s.

Big mistake. Sorry. You made a mistake.

Viktoria Altman: It’s funny because I, we spoke about this earlier and I think a mistake is I can’t think of a mistake. I can think of plenty of failures, but I think all of my failures have actually ended up as good things. I did start a company that failed recently.

It was called follow up with, and it was all about creating a [00:27:00] system to help lawyers follow up with their prospective clients. I don’t know if it was such a big mistake ’cause I still made a little bit of money off of it and I learned from it. But it was, I would say it was a little too narrow. It was a little bit too defined.

We didn’t have a big enough vision for it. And it’s, it was a little bit of a narrow product. Plus I also think it could be down now done with ai. So I think maybe it wasn’t future proof and that was part of, probably part

Steve Fretzin: of the

Viktoria Altman: problem.

Steve Fretzin: Hey, do you think I should change the name of the segment from Victoria’s Big mistake or just anybody’s big mistake to failing forward?

Is that a better, I like that. Is that a better, I like play or better setup for this segment because I want people to share some problem they had and something that didn’t. I’m the same way I started a bunch of businesses that. Eventually either failed or just became too cumbersome and I just wasn’t focused and had to get, those were, those were either mistakes, failures, whatever they were.

I learned something. I, I learned that to better focus. I learned maybe not to have a partnership. They [00:28:00] learned whatever it is that I learned. I don’t know. Failing forward is a very exquisite way to lay that out for people that learn something important from a failure.

Viktoria Altman: I like that.

It also goes back to the mindset. I don’t know if you ever read Mindset by Carol Wack. It’s a really good book about. How people who have a very specific growth mindset will go further in life and they, one of the things they do is they look at every failure as part of their growth. So it’s actually every failure

Steve Fretzin: is actually like failing up.

Yeah. I really believe, and I’ve said this on a number of occasions, that this is how we get better. This is how we define ourselves. This is, it’s the getting knocked down and how we get up and how we handle things. From those experiences, which, that’s what life is. If you just had everything cruising through right then, what is life like?

It’s, you’re not gonna be able to handle anything that comes your way later. Anyway, that’s a whole other segment. Let’s wrap things up with thanking our wonderful sponsors. Of course, we got PIM Con coming up everybody in October. I will be on stage with a bunch of wonderful professionals and experts [00:29:00] helping you guys at the PIM Conference.

And then we’ve got the Law, her podcast with Sonya. Check that out everybody. And finally, legal verse, if you wanna look at a 14 day free membership trial to see what that’s all about. To network, to provide content, to give content, to take in content internationally. Check out legal verse media.com and Victoria.

People want to get in touch with you. They wanna learn more about BSP legal marketing. What are your digits?

Viktoria Altman: My digits like a phone number. Yeah. I don’t think

Steve Fretzin: I’ve used a number’s in a really long time. Alright, so I should stop saying that ’cause it makes me as old as I am, as old as I feel. What are the best ways for people to reach you?

Viktoria Altman: Okay, so there is my website BSPE, legal marketing.com. They’re, my appointment link is embedded into the website, so you can actually just. Have a chat with me. My name is Victoria with a k Altman, like the champ Chad, GPT guy, same last name, no relationship. Look, you can look me up on LinkedIn or Facebook and send me a friend request and I’m [00:30:00] happy to have a conversation.

And my email is Victoria with a k@bsplegalmarketing.com.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And if I really want to continue to feel my age, do you know what a Rolodex is? I am almost your age actually. I dunno about that.

Viktoria Altman: We’re not that different age. Oh my

Steve Fretzin: God. All right.

Viktoria Altman: I just work with a lot of tech, so I move up very quickly.

Okay. Yeah. You’re with the legal? Yes. I do know what a Rolodex. I used to have a Rolodex.

Steve Fretzin: Okay. All right then you, you’re all right. You’re with me. All right. All right, li thank you so much. This has been as much fun as I had to in your show. And what, give out the name of your show too, just in case people wanna check out an awesome podcast.

Viktoria Altman: The Law Firm Accelerator Podcast is the name of my show, and I appreciate your comment on there as well.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, it was a lot of fun and again, you’ve shared all your wisdom on legal marketing. I feel like I did that with legal Biz dev and good old fashioned pot swap. Never heard anybody.

Thank you so much, Victoria, for coming on the show, and I’d like to thank you everybody for hanging out with us for the last 30 minutes. I got my usual page of notes, three or four, [00:31:00] really aggressive, hard hitting, interesting things that you guys can take too hard about how to evaluate and figure out your marketing and really take things to the next level.

So be that lower everybody. What do you think be, should you is it be that marketing, be that marketer, be that lawyer? What do you think? I think being a good lawyer is about being a good marketer, isn’t it? All right that, that lawyer is a package. You gotta be the whole package. All right. Thank you everybody.

Take care. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. To be that lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice, visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.