Brooke Lively: Mastering Law Firm Leadership and Execution

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brooke Lively discuss:

• Recognizing that law firms must master the business of law
• Prioritizing rocks before everything else
• Building culture through the right people and real accountability
• Understanding personal wiring and stage fit

 

Key Takeaways:

• Law school teaches legal doctrine, not leadership, systems, or execution. Firms that struggle often lack clear vision, aligned people, and real accountability. Frameworks like EOS provide structure for turning intention into consistent results.
• You cannot pursue every opportunity at once without diluting impact. Identifying quarterly “rocks” forces focus and determines what gets a firm’s time and attention. Without clear priorities, “urgent” noise will crowd out important progress.
• Success depends on having the right people in the right seats and refusing to tolerate toxic high performers. Clear metrics, documented processes, and regular follow-through create traction. When accountability becomes normal, execution improves across the firm.
• Leaders thrive in different environments, whether scrappy growth or mature stability. Misalignment between personality and company stage can create friction and unintended chaos. Self-awareness allows both the leader and the firm to operate at their best.

 

“The urgent overtakes the important, and the important never gets done.” —  Brooke Lively

 

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About Brooke Lively: Brooke Lively is a speaker, author, and profitability expert, and the founder of Cathedral Capital, a team of CFOs and Profitability Strategists dedicated to helping entrepreneurs transform their private practices into profitable, well-managed businesses. With an MBA in Investments and Corporate Finance, Brooke has leveraged her experience growing multiple companies to guide clients—from law firms to marketing agencies—in understanding financial statements, making data-driven decisions, and increasing profitability. She is the author of the 6 Key Numbers series, providing accessible financial guidance for business owners, psychologists, and attorneys. Known for her approachable yet candid style, Brooke also delivers engaging keynote presentations that educate entrepreneurs on financial stability, growth management, and sustainable profitability.

 

Connect with Brooke Lively:

Website: https://brookelively.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CathedralCapital

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookelively/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCg1JD7XBFwGjizaa9_566sg

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cathedralcapital/

 

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Narrator  [00:04]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer Coach Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive, helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.

 

Steve Fretzin  [00:27]

Steve Fretzin, here, and welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. This is the show, by the way, number one if you go to Google and you type in legal business development podcast, which, by the way, no one will ever do, but if you did that, we would show up number one on Google. So I have that going for me, Brooke, but this is the show that helps you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. I have my good friend Brooke here today. How are you? I am awesome, Steve. How are you doing good? I think we just agreed a few minutes ago that we need to spend more time together. And I was like, you said it, and I was thinking it, and then I was like, God damn it, she’s right. It’s hard right to, like, maintain relationships with people that you love, because we get so busy and all that. That’s a bad excuse. Yeah.

 

Brooke Lively  [01:09]

And you know, what’s been coming up for me, in so many different ways, so many different contexts, is kind of that Eisenhower matrix, the urgent overtakes the important, and the important never gets done. And how am I spending my time? Am I fighting fires, or am I doing the things that are important to me, whether it’s important for my business or just important for me personally, for my well being and my enjoyment and my happiness, and it has come up so many times in the past three weeks, and when stuff comes up a lot, I’m like, Ooh, I really should be paying attention to that.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:46]

No, I love it. I love it. Well, I’m excited to get into the weeds with you today. We’ve got a lot to cover, and everybody, as we love to do. Start off with the quote of the show. This one, you’re gonna have to explain this one to me, because it’s off the beaten path. But you can’t ride two horses with 1s Welcome back to the show, Brooke, and tell us about that quote, because that is a bit odd.

 

Brooke Lively  [02:07]

So I’m a Texas girl, right? I mean, that’s one of those things that you just kind of grow up hearing. And I’m an EOS implementer exclusively for law firms. And one of the things we say a lot as an EOS implementer is, if two people own it, nobody owns it, and my clients kind of tune it out. And one day I just looked at someone, I’m like, can’t ride two horses with one ass, and they fell out laughing. I’m like, okay, that gets their attention. And so I’ll use that a whole lot, yeah, when I’m working with clients and and I’ll start to open my mouth, and they’ll go, yeah, yeah, two horses, one, ass. I got it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:52]

You know, it’s funny. We were, we were kind of chatting before we hit record about huge life change for me was when I worked with an EOS implementer. And for everybody listening us is entrepreneur operating system or something like that. Yeah, think I got it, and just IT people don’t recognize, especially law firms that are struggling with lack of systems, lack of process, lack of culture, lack of all these things, because they didn’t learn this stuff in law school, and they’re just winging it. How valuable it can be to have someone in your corner that can set up the structures that you need in your law practice to be successful. And I know we’re going to get into that in great detail, but give us a little background leading up to you being a law firm focused EOS implementer. And by the way, everybody, Brooke Lively is the founder of scaling law. Take it away.

 

Brooke Lively  [03:40]

Brooke, okay, so the previous company that I still own is called Cath cap, and I started that when I was working for my family’s law firm. Because I I’m a numbers person. I’m an MBA CFA. I only know how to run a business like a business, I don’t know how to run it like a practice. So I had joined a group, and people in that group said, Can you help us like you’re helping your family? And that was when I started to understand how intimidating the business side of a firm was to a lot of law firm owners, because law school doesn’t prepare you to go out and do that. So I ran that for a while, and we grew. We now take, you know, some clients outside of law firms, but eventually my coo took that company over, like she’s so amazing, and Pam runs it and does a fabulous job, and I’d worked myself out of a job, and Pam said, What are you going to do? I’m like, I don’t know. Well, we’re data driven girls, and we had done some research at one point because we noticed that you could almost divide. Our clients into three different buckets. There was bucket a, who started working with us, and their results were just off the chart. They were awesome. Think like a graph, hockey stick high into the right. There was bucket b, who made slow and steady progress. Then there was bucket C, who you couldn’t even tell was working with us, and we’re like, what are we doing with Group A that we’re not doing with Group C? Like, how are we failing them? So we started digging down, did a lot of analysis, and what we discovered was it wasn’t us as CFOs, it was the firms. All the firms in Group A were executing, like, the minute we told them to do something, they did it. Group B executed, okay, yeah. And Group C, there was something in the firm that was holding them back. They just couldn’t seem to execute on anything. And so we dug down some more and discovered that with the exception of one firm, every single one of the firms in Group A was running on EOS. And so starting that day, EOS became our number one outgoing referral, which didn’t surprise us, frankly, because we ran on EOS and we knew how great it was, yeah. So we’re like, Well, of course, that makes sense, yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [06:25]

And there’s like, five books that I put up on a pedestal above all other books getting things done with, you know, David Allen and number of others. And then we got Gino Wickman with traction. And I remember as a small entrepreneur, I’m not, you know, some big, big highfalutin thing. But I was reading it, and I was like, everything it said. I was like, wow, that makes so much sense in this I didn’t have and that I didn’t have. And so, yeah, it really cuts to the chase. And then all the things that they’re willing to give away to essentially say, Look, we work with you, but here’s all of our stuff. If you want to download this or download that, like and you want to work out on your own, great, but, you know, and if you need us, we’re here, and I’ve been doing that same model, you know, creating video, creating books, creating articles, creating all this stuff. And guess what? You know, it’s important to do. And there’s people that are going to step up and say, You know what? This isn’t enough. This is a taste. We’re on the tasting menu right? We need the Yeah, we need the full meal.

 

Brooke Lively  [07:24]

We need the help. So in that’s how we started at Cathcart with EOS. We self implemented, and it worked really well, and then it wasn’t working quite as well. And, you know, so I emailed Gino because he wrote a quote for the front of one of my books that said, you know, if you want to strengthen your data component, talk to Brooke, yeah. And he gave us an implementer, and we’re like, oh, an implementer can take us to a whole new level, yeah. So when we realized that the firms that were doing really well were all using Eos, that became our outgoing referral, and we kept saying, Go find an EOS implementer. Go find an EOS implementer. And we got two responses to that. The first was, I can’t find an implementer that’s willing to work with law firms. I’m like, What the hell lawyers are awesome. Agreed. What’s your problem there? And then the second one was, I found an implementer that will work with a law firm, but they don’t understand the industry. They don’t get that I can’t do these things. They just don’t understand how we work.

 

Steve Fretzin  [08:34]

Well, yeah, and if you go at them, like a sales organization, you’re talking about widgets, and you’re talking about, you know, the factory floor, like the goal or something, where it’s, you know, business is business. And then there’s the legal industry, right? So that there is something special, unique, kind of, you know, in sort of, you know, up at the top tier, with doctors and lawyers, and also the ethics and thing, the rules and things they got to follow. And so they are, they are a business, but they also have some, you know, intricacies to them that make it, make them, you know, kind of special flowers.

 

Brooke Lively  [09:07]

Yeah, so when I worked myself out of a job at Cath cap and Pam, asked me what I was going to do, and I said, I don’t know. She said, I really think you should be an EOS implementer for law firms, because there wasn’t anybody who actually really loved lawyers and who understood the industry the way I do, yeah, and so that’s what I did. And what’s been amazing is that, yeah, I know it deeply, like you were saying. And so on day one, when we’re talking about your accountability chart and how we’re going to structure the company, I’m also talking to you about, okay, wait a minute, when was the last time we redid your compensation structure? And are we going to redo that? Because that’s going to impact this, which is something that most people wouldn’t think of, because. They don’t understand how much the structure of a law firm impacts the way you you compensate people. Yeah, well,

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:08]

let’s actually take that step back again. And what would you say as you go in and evaluate a variety of lawyers and law firms where they’re really missing the boat, like, what are the things that right away you’re finding out top three biggest problems they have when you you know, lift the hood and look inside.

 

Brooke Lively  [10:26]

I think it’s three things. I think it’s vision, lack of vision. I think it’s a lack of vision, or it is a different vision in everyone’s head. Okay, the owner may have one vision, or one partner may have one vision and another partner has another vision, and I promise you your paralegal has no vision, yeah, and it certainly doesn’t match yours, yeah? I think it’s people, you know. Let’s go back to that Jim Collins phrase of getting the right people in the right seats on the bus. If we can’t do that, if we cannot get the right people in the right seats, we’re never going to have a great

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:05]

law firm. Yeah, team is everything right. You can’t win a championship with half the players, you know, following the plays, and half the players doing whatever they want.

 

Brooke Lively  [11:15]

You can’t. And I’ll come out and say it, the legal industry has some really toxic environments.

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:22]

Yeah, well, consistently, though, Brooke, when I hear about that, and they root it out, and they move that one or two people out, and then they say, everybody’s in a whole different place. And you just, they just didn’t realize how toxic it was until that that root was pulled out and taken out of the garden, or whatever we want to say, but that’s it. And so I think law firms, Some law firms, have, like, no asshole rules. That’s great. But I think there’s also, you know, people that sneak under the radar or become toxic, and then, you know what? How are you? How are you dealing with it, right?

 

Brooke Lively  [11:58]

And it’s generally the person who bills the most, or who brings? Who originates the most, the biggest with sales. I mean, at someone they’re like, we can’t afford to lose this person, right? Big Ego. And then, shockingly, when that person’s gone, in almost every case, production goes up, even without that highest producer, yeah, because everybody else is so happy, and all the time that they spent in the hallway and in the bathroom talking about how horrible that person is cannot be spent actually producing. And I think the third is accountability. It’s actually getting things done. I was talking to one of my clients, and you know, you may be able to identify with this. He said, You know, every January we would have these awesome planning meetings, we’d have these great plans for the year, and by February it would all be forgotten, yeah, and nothing would ever get done. And it’s not just getting it done at the leadership level, it’s getting things done all the way through the company. Yeah, hey everybody.

 

Steve Fretzin  [13:04]

Steve Fretzin Here and@lawyer.com They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow from connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers, to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver. Get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation@rankings.io today. Hey everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin as the you know, I’m the host of the be that lawyer podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing or wasting time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you. And let’s make this your breakout year. So how do we then unpack the leader at the top? And so again, if there’s a lawyer listening, who works at a law firm, or there’s a leader of a law firm listening right now, we need to kind of look at both views. Where do we start? I mean, where do we start to figure out how to make this a success? Because everybody wants success, and sometimes it’s hard to figure out, you know, what the problems are. And sometimes it’s hard to figure out, you know, what we need to do to actually, you know, get in moving in the right direction. Yeah, is it evaluating? Like, is it a value? Like, you know, like, the first thing I do when I meet with a lawyer is, we take 30 minutes and I ask a lot of questions, and I even set up by saying, I’m going to ask you some tougher questions, because I want to get to the root of what’s actually going on with this lawyer. Here, and we do a bloodletting exercise, and I literally have a page, 568, 10, things that they’re not doing, that they should be doing, or they don’t know how to do, or whatever. And that’s that’s terrible, and it’s also great, because it’s allowing me to kind of understand, is this somebody that has great potential? Is this somebody who really needs me, or is it someone that doesn’t really have many problems at all, is that sort of the first step is, is that taking stock of of what is, what’s working, what’s not working?

 

Brooke Lively  [15:29]

Yes and no. First of all, let me say, getting a list of things that we need to fix is awesome.

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:37]

It makes a big difference. I mean, then, then I know what the conversations about it’s not about me and my Cert and I teach lawyers this too. It’s not about you and your services, right? A good sales process means that we’re acting as a therapist, and we’re asking a lot of great questions. We’re listening, yeah, and you like that, because, you know, right? It’s on the money, I’m totally a therapist, and by the way, the connectivity that occurs between me and the client and between the lawyer and their potential client is so much better, and far better than, you know, the hot and sizzly pitch you know that we think we have to make

 

Brooke Lively  [16:12]

right, but if we don’t root out, if we don’t find the problems and find the root cause of The problem, not just the symptom, which is what people usually solve, but the root cause of that issue, and solve that. That’s how we move forward. So yes, it’s it’s asking questions, it’s talking bit. The theory behind EOS is that there are six key components, and we just want to strengthen those six key components. And if you think about it on a scale of zero to 100% can we just get to 80? It’s a b minus, people, that’s four out of five times

 

Steve Fretzin  [16:56]

it’s a b minus. But it changes hard. I feel like sometimes lawyers and law firms are kind of slow moving trains. There might be someone that that built this thing and is leading from the top down and and, you know, it’s a dictatorship, you know, in every way. So there’s all different kinds of of and there’s people with, they got committees for this, and they got, you know, a whole hierarchy. And it’s very tough to they’ve got to want just like, just like, with anybody that would work with me, would work with you, Brooke, that they’ve got to a wanna, they have to want to change, have somebody come in and evaluate, and they’ve got to be open minded to some coaching, and be open to change. And those are probably the most important factors. And then, you know, to get someone to even 80%

 

Brooke Lively  [17:39]

Yeah, in a lot of times, the people I work with want to change and be perfect, and you’re not going to be perfect, and it’s okay not to be perfect, and you’re going to fail. Let’s fail forward. Let’s learn a lesson from it. But you know, that’s okay. We all fail. We all do it. So the six key components are vision, because we can’t get there if we don’t know where there is, yeah, right. And everybody needs to be going to the same there. Yeah, people. You know, I’ve already said it, if you don’t have great people, you can’t have a great firm or a great any kind of company. The third is data you need. Those five to 15 numbers that you can look at that will give you the pulse of your business, not what has happened, but what’s going to happen, those forward looking numbers. And it used to be that we didn’t have enough data. Now we’re drowning in it. Now we have so much data that we can’t tell what’s important and what’s not. So it’s finding those key pieces and understanding how they help us foretell the future. The fourth one is issues. And you know, we talked about this a little bit. If you cannot find the problems and solve them at the root, you are going to be, what’s the expression, you know, doing the same thing over and over again, is, is the the definition of insanity? If we’re just solving the symptom, is going to keep coming back and we’re not going to make any progress. Yeah, so how do we, like, dig down and really find the true problem? The next one is process. And so often I have people roll their eyes, because when I say process, they see like that 700 page notebook that’s, you know, with the detailed instructions that say, click here, type this, hit enter. And you know, those things don’t get used and they are outdated. Second you do them? No, we’re just looking to document the 20% of the steps they get 80% of the process done. And again, let’s document 20% of the processes that run 80% of the firm. There’s no reason to over complicate this. And then the last one is traction, and that is getting that accountability, making sure everybody has a number that they own, making sure that everybody is delivering on their commitments, making sure that everyone is rowing together towards that one location.

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:35]

Yeah, you know, I struggle with the last one in one capacity, and I work with individual lawyers, not law firms. And I’m going to be doing a law firm retreat coming up soon. I do a number of these throughout the year, and they’re like, but we want everybody doing business development, you know, as a part of their job, every day, every week, being out there, you know, producing for the firm. And I’m just like, and how do we do that? And I was like, That’s a great question. Can I ask? Do I know the answer to that? I don’t know that. I do. Do you does anybody? I mean, how do you get the, you know, the paralegal in, the young associate and the, you know, the name partner who’s cranking out, you know, 2000 hours a year, all rowing in the same direction to do something they never signed up for and had never been a part of their life or experience up till this point, in the form of business development, where they have to go out and actually bring in clients. And I, you know, my answer is like, you know, you can bring a horse to water. They’ve got to, you know, it doesn’t mean that there, there can’t be accountability, or that we can’t set some low goals or just set some very easy to, you know, to get into some better habits and things, but, like, I think it’s a tough question,

 

Brooke Lively  [21:48]

yeah, I mean, it is in everybody should have some stuff that they’re working on. It’s different for everyone, because everyone’s job is different. But what are the things they’re working on? What are they accomplishing this quarter? What are their their rocks, you know, and that comes from, you know, the story of the professor, and I can’t remember who it is that told the story, and is so famous for it. But you know the professor who comes and has the glass cylinder, and he’s got rocks, pebbles, sand and water.

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:23]

Yeah, love that. It’s a great way to kind of explain priorities.

 

Brooke Lively  [22:27]

So, you know, what are the rocks? What are those important projects that need to get done and making sure that everybody has rocks?

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:36]

You know what? Brooke, I apologize, I kind of interrupted you. Will you just, will you just share what the what the rocks in the cylinder, and just go through the story, just for people that have never heard the professor talk about it.

 

Brooke Lively  [22:48]

Yeah, so Professor walks into the classroom, puts down a glass cylinder that’s empty. He’s got a pile of rocks, pile of sand, a pile of pebbles, and a pile of water, and, well, he doesn’t have a pile of water. He has a big pile of water, big pile of water, and it’s just sitting there really nicely formed. Yeah. And he says the rocks are the really important things, the pebbles, the your daily tasks, the sand is the daily interruptions, all the interruptions that happen in your life, and the water is everything else. He said, If you fill the cylinder with water first, there’s not going to be room for everything else. But then he said, if you take the rocks and you put all the rocks in, he puts all the rocks in, and he like, you know, jiggles it around a little. It’s like you can get all the rocks in, said, and then you put the pebbles in. So he takes the pebbles, and he puts the pebbles in, and they kind of like filter down and sift down through all the cracks. And he, you know, shakes it and jiggles it and, you know, and sure enough, he gets all the stinking pebbles in, except for, you know, maybe one or two, yeah. And then he starts in with the sand, and the sand goes in, and he gets, you know, most of the sand, and maybe not all of it. And he says, and yet there’s still room for water, and he pours the water in. And only when he has poured that water in and it’s all the way to the tippy top does He say, now the cylinder is full, but look how much more we got in there, and we got the important things in there.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:39]

Yeah, first, first priorities, first. And that priority says

 

Brooke Lively  [24:44]

that goes back to what I said in the very beginning, the tyranny of the urgent. The water and the sand feel urgent. I got to get this done. I got to get this done. The rocks and the pebbles are the things that are important, yeah.

 

Steve Fretzin  [24:59]

But. I don’t think lawyers can can decipher and organize and strategize around the rocks and the in the pebbles and the sand. I think they’re just being they’ve got a fire hose in the mouth of all of it, and they’re trying to maneuver through their day and their week and their month and their year, whether it’s law firm or a lawyer dealing with the fires in the day and what’s hitting. And so it’s a great, I think it’s a great story and a great example of the importance of critical thinking in understanding, what are your rocks, you know, is it client service? Yes. Is it business development? Yes. Is it, you know, making sure that your team is, you know, working successfully under you? Yes. And then there’s all these distractions and things that should be delegated and automated away that lawyers spend their time on. And that’s where things, you know in many times, many cases fall apart.

 

Brooke Lively  [25:52]

And I want to get more granular than that. I want to say that our rock, this quarter, is working like my rock is working with Steve to really hone my sales skills. And when I say yes to that project, and somebody comes to me and says, Oh my gosh, I found this new AI tool, and it’s awesome, and we should totally implement it right now. You say no, no, I said yes to honing my sales skills. So I’m going to say no to everything else, or not or not

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:29]

for now, right or not for now, like I take not now, since I’m still implementing Eos, by the way, every quarter of every year for 15 years, or whatever goes back, and I have a list of things that are not for now, right, right? They’re things that I want to do. I’m excited about them. It’s a great idea. I have these ideas that happen all the time, and I don’t do anything with them except stick them on a sideline, because I have things that need to get done this quarter that are priorities, and I don’t want people

 

Brooke Lively  [27:00]

you have already committed to doing. Yeah, and it goes back to if everything is important, nothing is important, and you can’t ride two horses with one ass.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:11]

Oh, we’ve come full circle in that with riding that horse. We have to wrap up. But Brooke, I have to ask you, what’s Brooke’s mistake? You knew it was coming, by the

 

Brooke Lively  [27:20]

way, right? I did. And so everybody has a different personality, everybody has a different set of skills. Everybody contributes differently to a company. I am not great in a company that is well established, because I like the scrappy, I like the coming up with new stuff. I like being nimble. I like moving fast. I like the Yeah, I’ll get it done. Yeah. When everything starts to like, mellow out, I’m like, Yeah, this is kind of boring. Let’s create some excitement. So my mistake was not understanding myself that you were doing that, and I was creating a lot of excitement at cap gap that I didn’t need to create. Okay? And it took me a long time. I don’t think it took Pam as long to figure this out, yeah, and that was also part of the reason why I let Pam take over, because she can run a mature company, yeah. And I moved to scaling law. And scaling law is this whole different thing. It is, you know, it’s a book published by EOS about what it’s actually like to implement EOS in a law firm. It is a community. It is the first ever community that EOS worldwide has approved in the world period. And it’s a community of law firms that are running on Eos, and it’s a place for them to come and talk to each other and have people that are solving similar problems using the same tools. It’s a place where they can come and learn. And I love it. It’s so much fun, and it’s going to get to a point where I’m going to need to step out, and I’m much more aware now, yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:23]

well, that’s self care. Will be self reflective is very challenging for many people, right, me included, and but it’s good that we’ve got people in our corner, like Pam, and it could be a spouse, it could be a partner, it could be, you know, just a good friend that’s able to kind of, you know, help you figure some stuff out if you’re not seeing it yourself. I do that quite a bit for my clients, and they’re, fortunately, very open to me identifying something in them that is causing them to, you know, be challenged, or have a problem, or, you know, they’re trying to, they’re creating chaos, or whatever it might be. Let’s take a moment, though, Brooke, and let’s thank these wonderful sponsors. How about that? We’ve got lawyers. Yeah, you’re fine with it. Lawyer.com Great directory, legal Broadcasting Company. Everybody, this is a new legal broadcast situation where, you know, we’re being syndicated, they’re going to group together really great law focused shows. And so if you’re interested in talking to them about production or being a part of that company, that group, let me know. We’ve got rankings. Io crushing it for their clients. And, of course, pimcon, what a fantastic operation that is happening October 4 through six. And I was there for the last one they did. And oh my god, just a first class operation that they’re running over there. Brooke, people want to get in touch with you. They want to get scaling law they want to talk to you about implementation. What are the digits?

 

Brooke Lively  [30:44]

All right. Books aren’t quite out yet. They’ll be coming out soon, but the best way to reach me is either scaling law.com or Brooke at scaling law.com so website or just shoot me an email. Fantastic.

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:59]

Well, you and I are going to end this show, and then we’re going to talk about, how do we get together and hang out? Because I think we agree we miss each other, and I just think the world of you, and I’m really excited what you’re doing, and I’m excited for the law firms that get the opportunity to work with you, and I’ll maybe have you come in and talk with some of my managing partners too, about helping them. That might be a next step as well, but I want to thank you. I want to thank our amazing audience. I want to thank our sponsors. I’m just so happy and blessed. We just celebrated six years of doing this show, and everybody knows that you got to be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon. You Steve,

 

Narrator  [31:44]

thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretson.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.