I’Asia Scarlett-Jones: How Subscription Pricing and Niche Branding Transform a Law Firm

Tired of the “fight to the death” model of family law? In this episode, you’ll hear how a modern family law founder rebuilt the divorce practice playbook with intentional branding, low-conflict strategy, and a subscription model that puts families—and profitability—first.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and I’Asia Scarlett-Jones discuss:

• Origin story and career path into family law
• Mindset: opportunity in difficulty and intentional practice
• Niche branding and attracting the right family law clients
• Subscription model vs. hourly billing in divorce matters
• Delegation, systems, pricing, and common law firm mistakes

Key Takeaways:

• Viewing setbacks as lessons rather than losses creates resilience in both law practice and leadership.
• Treating a law firm like a true business—brand, systems, pricing, and niche—separates commodity lawyers from sought-after advisors.
• A low-conflict, highly strategic approach to family law can protect families from the financial and emotional cost of endless litigation.
• Subscription-based pricing, when designed thoughtfully, can improve client affordability, predictability, and trust while still being profitable.
• Undercharging, under-delegating, and delaying systems are expensive mistakes; investing early in support, structure, and proper pricing pays off.

“You have to charge what you’re worth. Do not be afraid. Charge it. They will pay it.” —  I’Asia Scarlett-Jones

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About I’Asia Scarlett-Jones: I’Asia “Asia” Scarlett-Jones is the Founder and Managing Attorney of ASJ Law Office, a New York City–based family law firm dedicated to guiding individuals and families through complex legal transitions. With experience in public interest work, court attorney service, and litigation, she brings both deep legal expertise and a client-centered approach rooted in empathy and clarity. Asia focuses on family law matters, including divorce, custody, mediation, and prenuptial agreements, with an emphasis on resolving disputes outside the courtroom whenever possible. An Amazon bestselling author, as well as a wife and mother, she draws from both professional and personal experience to support, inform, and empower her clients while advocating for outcomes that prioritize their well-being.

Connect with I’Asia Scarlett-Jones:

Website: https://asjlawoffice.com/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Hey everybody, before we get to the show, really big announcement for you. This is one of the most important things I’ve done in nearly two decades of working exclusively in the legal industry. It is the be that lawyer community, and it’s officially live today. This is a global platform designed to help lawyers become rainmakers, grow their law practices and take control of their careers. And it’s built for individuals just like you who want more. And it’s also for law firms who want to bring real business development coaching and training to their teams with a strong return on investment. Inside you’re going to find a massive library of content, practical courses, live events and direct engagement with rainmakers from around the world who are there to answer your questions and help you grow. Membership is only 699, per lawyer. It discounts available for groups, and for a limited time, April 15 to April 30, you will get that deal as a founding member at that special rate I just mentioned, you have two weeks take action. Be that lawyer.com/community I’ll say it again. Be that lawyer.com/community to sign up today. Hope to see you there. And by the way, enjoy the show.

 

Speaker 1  [01:11]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach. Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host. Steve Fretzin, hey everybody.

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:34]

Steve Fretzin, here and welcome to the be that lawyer Podcast. I’m so thrilled that you’re here. You know, whether you’re in your car, walking your dog doing laundry. And those are the three that I do. I don’t want you Asia, but those are my three go tos, right, walking the dog doing laundry. And always that’s when I’m listening to podcasts, is that you have, you have, like, a routine for that.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [01:52]

Yes, actually, while I’m getting dressed. So in the morning, I am a podcaster. I have to listen

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:58]

to it. I have to I’m filling voids. I’m feeling like, you know, sometimes I want to go out of nature and just be with nature, but then there’s other times I’m just walking along and I’m like, You

 

[02:06]

know what? I’d like to I need to listen to something

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:08]

education, you know, taking some taking some banter. Well, I’m so happy that you’re here, everybody. You’re in for a treat today. I know I say that every week, but I really mean it. This week, you’re in for a treat. It’s just so good to see you. We had so much fun in our last, you know, couple conversations, you know, shout out to our friends at women on law, right? Awesome group of people there. And Ariana taddler, my good friend of mine and client. And let’s jump in. We’ve got this quote of the show, a good old friend of mine, Albert Einstein, we go way back. Here’s this quote. In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Tell us a little bit about that quote. Oh, first of

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [02:46]

all, thank you for having me on. I’m super excited, and it’s always a great time speaking with you. So that quote resonates in so many different ways. So I practice family law and divorce, so my clients come to me and that moment, and it’s just like there’s opportunity here, and just in my personal life, and especially once I formed my law firm, I realized that instead of always looking at everything as the glass half empty, you can look at it as half full. So that’s really something I carry with myself. And just like I try to teach my team that I’m like, All right, guys, it’s okay. It didn’t work out. What’s the lesson? Not the loss? So that is huge.

 

Steve Fretzin  [03:26]

I love that quote for sure, one of the most impactful things that I ever heard on this podcast. And I’m not going to say who said it, because I My memory isn’t working that well, but I know the quote maybe that’s the most important thing, was, is this happening to me, or is this happening for me? Yeah, I like out mine. So, like, you know, I’m sitting in traffic and I’m kind of hard. I’m getting angry and frustrated and right, well, maybe this is an opportunity for me to listen to a podcast, or maybe there’s an opportunity to practice patience. Yeah, you know what? I’m if I got there 10 minutes faster, would it really even matter, you know,

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [04:01]

sometimes the universe is protecting us from something. So I’m really big on that spiritually, like, you know, maybe I’m just not supposed to be there at that very moment, at that time. Yeah, I’m supposed to be here, yeah. So it’s like, taking away that, Woe is me. So I’m also a mom. I have two boys, so I’m constantly like, okay, you can feel, but where are we going with this? Right? Like it’s maybe it’s just not about you. Maybe it does not

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:27]

sometimes, the less we do and say and enacted, the better you know, just sitting and waiting for something there to materialize. I know. I know. What ages are your kids?

 

[04:36]

Ooh, 13 going on 14. And nine

 

Steve Fretzin  [04:38]

going on 10. Okay, so going into the teenage years, like, all the hugs and all the things that I loved about my son being a kid was gone. Then there was a point where he was, this is like personal stuff, but there was a point where we were hugging, and he kind of, like, did, like a heavy breathing in my ear, and it was super creepy and uncomfortable. I was like, yeah. And then from that point on. The kid couldn’t hug me without being creepy. So I’m like, When are the days, this is the teenage years, right? When are the days like you get it? Just a good old fashioned, oh, man, no, I still get hugs. I’m gonna get hugs. I’m saying me till they’re 16, I know.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [05:15]

And it’s just like, so it’s interesting when my son hugs my husband, my oldest son hugs my husband, he like hugs him and then like, hits him at the same time. So I’m like, this is like, a guy thing, right? I get, like, the wraparound, and it’s just like, you never want the hugs to go away. No, I’m that parent too. It’s just like, yeah, it’s, you know, the random times where you’re not really seeing the hug coming. And it’s like,

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:39]

oh, I went out and saw him in college and took him for like, a spring break thing, and I got a good old fashioned hug. And I love that. Yeah, so it comes things that you lose sometimes come back. There you go. Well, everybody, we could just talk the rest time about our kids, right? That would really, everyone that doesn’t have kids would appreciate that so much, I’m sure. And by the way, let’s talk about my cat, because I know that’s a hot topic. Anybody wants a dog? All right, just keep going. All right. So enough of that, everybody, as I mentioned, a treat. I’ve got my friend Asia, Scarlet Jones here, ASj, law office, founder, managing attorney. Give us your origin story, your founder story. How did that? Give us how that came to be, for sure.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [06:19]

So we are. We don’t have all day. So I’ll give you the abbreviated

 

Steve Fretzin  [06:23]

version of it, Reader’s Digest. If anybody even knows what that means, right, right? You’re under 40.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [06:28]

No. So you know, it’s an interesting journey. Funny enough, I knew I actually wanted to be an attorney when I was in high school, and then fast forward, many, many jobs later, I worked in politics at the New York State Assembly, and I knew I didn’t want to be a politician. And then when I began my career, I worked with a solo practitioner, which was very interesting and foreshadowing. And then I jumped into legal aid. So I worked in the public sector, which was very challenging, fun, but very challenging. And then I became a court attorney, so I worked side by side with the judge in family law, and then I went into the private sector. But family law is very interesting. I feel like family law is something that touches everyone. Right? It’s family law. How many people have you met? Either they’ve gone through a divorce, they had custody issues, or, you know, prenums, post numps, all of the things. So it touched me my personal life, just with certain people in my family, my husband and I realized that, you know what I think I have, like this skill, like I have the lawyer still down, but I think that the passion was there, and I couldn’t see myself doing anything else. Trust me, there were days where I wanted to walk away, but I stuck with it. And after going into private practice, I realized I actually didn’t want to practice law the same way, and I feel like, what’s the alternative? Right? Just go start your own thing. So during the pandemic, I had this really bright idea to quit my job in the private sector and start ASj law office. And we have not looked back. And here we are today. And I

 

Steve Fretzin  [07:58]

think there’s also a transition from going out on your own to going out on your own and building a significant brand. And that’s one thing that really struck me when we met, was you haven’t been just adding clients. You’ve been really building up the brand with books and podcasts and things that you’ve done. Why? What’s your perspective on lawyers that just go out on their own or that are just in private practice or whatever, but they don’t really think about their brand or think about, why do they struggle with that particular area?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [08:28]

You know, this is a safe space, so I’ll tell you this, right? You can find a lawyer anywhere, and I’m very intentional. I for a while, like when you know, I first hire people, it sounds very frustrating, because I think society just feels like, you know, lawyers are lawyers, and that may be true for some, but for me, I have a very niche clientele, right? I’m very specific on who I, you know, work with, because I think it’s important, you know. I think some lawyers just believe, you know, once you have the Esquire, you can do whatever you want to do. Everyone needs you, yeah, right. And that, in some respects, it’s true, but at the same time, it’s like you have to for family law, that is, you have to practice with intent. You have to, you must. We are dealing with very sensitive topics, and you have to build that trust. And it was a challenge Steve on how much I share and what about myself personally, and how to build the brand of Asha law office, but ultimately, I learned you just have to be yourself, right, like you have to like you have to be authentic and love what you do and the people you have to serve. So for me, it became challenging in the beginning to branch away from that idea of the stereotypical attorney that just decides to start a practice and then that’s it. We take any client on, versus ASA law office, we started this firm, and we take on specific clients who need us for specific

 

Steve Fretzin  [09:49]

things, yeah, and for lawyers who don’t get branding or don’t understand, you know, they’re the business or that they need to do this. I mean, what’s your diagnosis? Is it a fear issue? Is it a strategy issue? Misunderstanding of what branding is. Yeah, I

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [10:02]

think we separate the two very easily, right? Like, you know, I this is a business. The lawyer part is how I serve in my business, right? But at the end of the day, my business is my law firm, no differently than, you know, maybe someone who has a candle business or, you know, they have a product. In that sense, this is a service that we’re providing. And I think ideally, when people come to me like, oh, I want to start my own practice, and I’m like, listen, it’s not what you think it is. You have to be really strategic here, right?

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:33]

Pause. Well, yeah, you take a pause, right?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [10:35]

And I’m just like, I hear ya, I hear you. But it is very intentional, and it is. It’s a lot of work. I’m not going to sugarcoat it as, you know, I just wake up and it’s great, and it’s all kittens and rainbows. It’s a lot of work, and you really have to put your all into it, for sure, for sure,

 

Steve Fretzin  [10:52]

yeah, and that’s business development, that’s branding, and it’s learning the business side, right? It’s the operations, the finance, you know, and then what you should technology, all the different pieces now, but I will say, in being in legal for almost 20 years, I mean, I really do believe it’s easier now than it’s ever been and and there’s not the same expense that there was 20 years ago, with you got to have an office, you got to have a full time reception, you got to do all these things. Yeah, I think there are a lot of consultants and people that are open to helping rights. You go out on your own and have the these are the 10 resources you need, or these are the things you need to set up day one or whatever. That’s that the information is out there. Just you have to just find it. You gotta

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [11:35]

go find it. And you don’t need to reinvent the will in that aspect, but you do need to adjust to the times, right? You know, once upon a time, it was like, I don’t need a website. People just come to me like, yeah, no, I have a website. You need to have a website,

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:49]

but you don’t need to spend 1020, 30,000 right? Now, now it’s AI or now it’s, it can be pennies on the dollar of what it used to be, absolutely

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [11:57]

stiffen up. Yeah, there’s no excuse, Steve. I’m going to be honest with you, right? Like, the resources are out there. Like, do not tell me that you can’t go out and learn it, and if you don’t know it, hire the person who does right? Like, that’s it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [12:09]

I spend a lot of time, you know, not, I’m not solving all of this, right, but I have the resources so that when someone goes out on their own, I’m going to help them with the business development and the branding and some of the things that are my focus, and then they absolutely, I’m not going to be your bookkeeper. I’m not going to set up your tech stack, but I’m going to put you with the people that can do it. Great, damn quickly, yes, yes, yes. All right, changing direction a little bit, not fully, but you know, family law in Chicago in particular, and in New York and some of these major places, it’s so crowded and getting more commoditized, and you’ve taken an angle in less conflict, more strategy digging. I mean, how did you decide what you wanted your brand to stand for or not stand for?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [12:52]

I do not like court, right? I’m not that attorney that’s going to say we’re going to fight for you. We’re going to take the other person down and drag them through. I’m not doing that. You know, when I gave you my pedigree, you know, I started out in court. I know court, I’m a very damn good litigator. I choose not to do it right for very specific reasons. Family law is very personal. Steve court is like the run of the mail, and then you’re out, and then you’re out. And that’s how that works. So for me, being more strategic for my clients keeps them out of court. And if we have to go into court for whatever reason, it’s almost that thought process of we’re here for a very specific reason, and then we need to get out, especially just knowing the damage that it can do and the power we hold as divorce attorneys and within families, it’s kind of scary. So I knew, from my perspective and my experience that I didn’t want to do that. And the other side of that, which you know, I do want to chat about, is also the cost of litigation is so freaking high, right? For good reason. I’m not going to say it’s not right. We are taking on your stress, your problems, and we’re using our knowledge to power through however, most families can’t stomach it. It’s tedious. You know, it’s 10 o’clock at night, you’re getting an email from opposing counsel, just like ripping the other side apart is tiring. So I didn’t want to do that with this

 

Steve Fretzin  [14:16]

firm, but you’re doing it. You’re doing it for yourself, and you’re doing it for your clients. See someone nodding like we are going, that’s that makes a lot of sense. And then there’s going to be someone listening that goes, But wait a second, you know you’re giving up the most profitable part of this, or you’re giving up you’re going to lose people because you’re not the shark and what? But that’s a decision that we all have to make. And you know you right, so you’re okay giving up something to get something maybe better,

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [14:43]

yeah, for sure, you’re right. You know, I have given that up a lot, a lot of it, if I’m going to be very transparent with you again, safe space, people walk in the door and they want to hear that, right? They don’t want to hear the cushy, you know, crap of you know, let’s try to work it out. It’s not that, right? I’m not. Telling you to kiss the other person’s behind, and I’m very privy to what happens in the courtroom or within families, but what I am telling you is that one you probably can’t afford it. Let’s just be an honest right? I don’t care how much money you have, but mentally, you cannot afford this. I can do it, but there’s a better way, and I think that that is a huge, huge, huge part of what we miss. So yes, most people gravitate towards that attorney, Steve of you know, they’re going to fight for me and I’m upset, and I want someone to be just as upset as I am, and then take the other side out, and you’re right, I’m going to lose out on that. But then the other side of it is that I meet clients that come to me because I’m still in business, that say, You know what, I don’t have time for this, right? Like, I’m very busy. I’m the CEO of this. I’m on the board of that. I’m traveling across the world for work. I don’t got, I don’t have time to keep going to court. Those are our clients. Those are the people we see eye

 

Steve Fretzin  [15:54]

to eye. And I’m okay with that, totally, yeah. And I think sometimes we have to get, like, there was a time where I took on marketing, so business development, coaching, training, that’s my jam, and all that. Yeah. And then I was like, You know what? I’m handing out all this marketing to all these different agencies and everything and and I can do better than them, or I can keep it all in house. I was so freaking miserable for about two years. I just was like, now I’m interacting in a whole different way with lawyers that aren’t getting the content back to me, or they’re not making decisions quickly, or they’re holding up this whole thing, and then I’m the bag. It was like, just a whole myriad of things. It’s so but you have to, sometimes you have to try, or you have to know what’s like. You know what is involved in in court and all that. And then know what you want, to know what you don’t want, and then brand around what you do want, who are your people? Because I think I’m attracting 98% of the time exactly the person that I want to work with absolutely and I think when we brand ourselves properly and authentically, that’s what we get people that aren’t like us aren’t looking for us. They’re not right, they’re not attracted in the

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [17:01]

same way? No, and I’m okay with that. I mean, don’t get me wrong, we still get the calls right. And, you know, I remember my intake specialist in the very beginning, where she started, she was just like, everyone’s calling, they want to work with you. And I’m I don’t want to work with them. I was very firm. And, you know, it is a mindset switch, right? Like seeing the money go out the door, but then you think about it, right? I can’t change everyone, but, you know, and I can only control myself, but ideally, I do truly believe that families court is just not for every family. Some families, they need it. You have to go to court, right? That’s not including, you know, neglect cases, abuse cases, that’s different. That goes without saying. You go through the court system, but we’re not talking about that. And I think another big aspect too, just so people realize, is that there are ways to prevent some of these issues. I’m really big on a prenup, right? Like, we don’t have time for this today, but that is a huge thing, that people forget a lot of the headaches that come about. The financial part, you can actually resolve that, or at least attempt to, well before you ever get here. So I realized that just recently, and in that last couple of years, unfortunately, that some people just don’t know, and that is about branding, sending, getting that message out so people know that there’s another way.

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:16]

Yeah, well, maybe that’s a good transition to something I want to ask you about the you’ve invested a lot in, in providing real content, right books, podcasts, social media. From your perspective, what’s moved the needle for you in attracting the right clients, not just getting attention

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [18:35]

absolutely so there’s two things. And someone actually brought this up to me during a consultation this week. She said to me, you know, I was on your website. I loved you. I wanted to meet you like she reached out on social media. And she was like, then I was watching this video about you, and you wrote a book about men in a divorce and custody. And she was like, is she going to be a good lawyer for me? Is she just only advocating for men? And interesting, she said. But then I kept watching. I went to another video. I read in one of your blogs, I looked on your YouTube, I looked on your social media, and it all came together. And that told me, like I’m doing the right thing. Two things can be true at once. You know, I believe that there are men that exist who struggle in court because they have no idea how to navigate it. So they just don’t even go that’s always going to be a passion of mine. Passion of mine. But I also understand that women who go through a divorce, they struggle too, because they don’t have the resources, especially a strong prenup, and I’m a big advocate for that. So those are two different things that I will never stop pushing for, and I stay with that, that message. So yes, writing a book, dedicating time for my blogs. Like, I write those blogs, like, I’m giving fodder to my team. This is my voice. This is what I want people to know from what I see, what I’m experiencing, and even going on, like, great podcasts like this. Like, you know, the idea is to get the message out and be intentional. Steve Right, like, I just can’t do everything. Like. Though I feel like I do a lot

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:03]

well, but I but I think what we’re kind of coming full circle with. You know, how do lawyers attract the right clients? The right client might be their wealth. The right client might be their personality. The right client might be demographically like men versus women, whatever it might be, the content that we create and the way that we’re coming across our authentically ourselves and educating and providing value allows people to sort of have that relationship with us before they even make a call. Which is the best that’s the best call to get right somebody that just calls like, I’ve been listening to this, I’ve been reading this, all this stuff, and there’s, there’s no competition, yeah, when that occurs, there’s only one thought, and that’s, how do I work with Asia? That’s, that’s my goal in moving forward with this. Yeah, right. It works. My spouse never talked to you before me, exactly.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [20:55]

Conflict, check, right. It works both ways. You know, we have, you know, if you come to a website, if you you know, we also have free resources to help as well, and you can watch the videos, you can read the blogs, you can go on the website, you can do all the things. It may work where you feel like you want to work with me, and it may be like, you know, fatigue, you know, I want someone different. Great. Let’s just go to someone different. And that’s okay. Took me a while to realize that, but I think once you get into it, you realize not all money is good money, so I’m okay with it for sure.

 

Steve Fretzin  [21:30]

Hey, everybody, your next big client might call it 8pm on a Saturday night. The question is, who’s picking up with Lex reception? A real person answers every call, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, so you never miss a lead, no matter when they reach out, no AI agents, no voicemail, just professional legal, literate receptionist representing your firm the right way around the clock and right now, be that lawyer listeners get 250 off their first month. Visit www dot lex reception.com/partners/be, that lawyer. To claim your offer that’s WWW dot lex reception.com/partners/be, that lawyer. Hey, everybody. Steve fretzen Here and@lawyer.com They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow from connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today, with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms higher rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases, other law firm, marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation@rankings.io today, well, there’s another whole aspect of of your practice, that in your business that I find truly interesting, and we brought it on the show a number of times. I’d like to get your spin on it, your take on it. It’s, you know, you’ve adopted the subscription model, which is rare in family law. And it’s, it’s, do you see it as a pricing issue or, fundamentally, a branding issue? Is it A, is it a people? Is it, is it a way to streamline, like, what’s the what’s the take on how you proceed with with a subscription versus our hourly billing?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [23:28]

Steve, is is tough, right? But you just said it. It’s not common in family law. It’s just not right. And you have to adapt to the market as well. At first blush. You know, most people look at it as, oh, great, a lower cost, but you do have to pay each month, right? It’s built out this way, and I did it. And just in brief, the history behind it was, I had great clients. I loved working with them. But, you know, we cannot control the other side. And they were getting plummeted by the hourly billing, like, I had to keep, like, you know, hey, you got to replenish, you know. And they had to choose, I love working with you Asia, but I don’t know how much more of this I can afford, because this other side is just not coming to the table. And it became just this spiral. So I switched over to subscription, and this is going on year two now, and when I first tried it, there were bumps in a row, right? With any business you know, you you live and you learn some it was very low at first, right? Just by design, because I didn’t want to do this huge up charge, and I didn’t know how it would work. And then as time progressed, I realized the best cases that fit into subscription are the cases where they’re not high conflict, but they have no real agreement yet, and you have to pay each month. Now listen, there are some people mind over matter. They look at it as you know. I know you worked 10 hours last month. That was last month. This is this month like you know, you have to those are the people that won’t fit in that box, per se, with subscription. But one thing I can guarantee you is that when you are doing subscription based versus hourly with an attorney, you’re always. To come out on the top. The data just proves it. Like it takes, it took me a while did the math. You had to. I had to, like, I’m a big numbers person, or, you know, I know it’s like, cliche, lawyers don’t do numbers. But when you own a business, you have to do numbers. Yeah, so how much time goes into this? And, you know, in the world of AI, let’s be serious here. Use your resources and also to have it in very efficient system. So I’m not going to get rid of subscription, you know, one day, hopefully I’ll break the mold, and more divorce attorneys and family law attorneys will do it because it’s better for families to have that fixed price. You’re paying that every month you budget in, and you’re getting excellent service, right? Your service shouldn’t change based on what you pay or how you pay. So, you know, you still have that concierge service. I’m really big on that, because it’s, it’s stressful. You’re in the middle of the night, something happens. You know, you can’t get to me, but you can go into your client portal, and there’s a handbook for that. There are resources, right? So that subscription pays for itself. It’s really good for clients who come in, who do not, you know, they don’t have the five figures to put up day one. They just can’t do it, but they need an attorney.

 

Steve Fretzin  [26:12]

Does it also help with, though, with perceived trust and transparency and control? I mean, that there’s a there’s a side perk, absolutely yes, right? And then having just that regular, sustainable revenue coming in as well, I think

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [26:25]

it builds that like, that’s where that bridge is, like, you know that gap, rather where the disdain for attorneys comes right into play. Oh, my goodness, I got a bill for $3,000 and then it took me two weeks to get in contact with my attorney. And you know those things that we hear I listen to actually invested time. I go to like Cleo con. I read all of the, you know, the reports that they do, and from other entities, what makes clients unhappy with us as lawyers, you know, you guys aren’t fast enough. You’re not giving me regular updates. Why am I finding this out three days later? So I changed it so you get the updates. You have access to us. You can put time on my calendar. You don’t need to call or email me and get buried in my inbox. And then you trust me. You trust that I’m doing this for you, and you know where your money’s going. So that’s important, I think, with subscription based

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:14]

services for sure, well, I think it’s going to make it’s going to be a bigger play as the years go on. The billable hour is, is, you know, everyone knows it’s at risk. Everyone knows that there’s a bubble here. And the people that get into AI, or the people that get into subscription early, I think you’re going to come out on top, you know, people who are hanging on to that, you know, you know, just charging for every little nickel and dime to, you know, to, you know, not only make money hit hit their numbers, right? It’s like you got to do better than every year before. And all right, it’s going to be very challenging to do. And, yeah, you know, you can do 1000 hours of work, and, you know, 15 hours, correct?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [27:52]

Yeah, very much. So, yeah, very much. So agree.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:55]

So things have changed. You know, you’re starting a firm today versus starting a firm you know, five years ago? Yeah, what do you think you would do differently if you knew now what you knew? What? If you knew then, what you knew that what you know now. It took me a second to come around with that. Um, but you, you have a you get a you get a redo, you get a redo, and you could start today. What? What would you do differently?

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [28:19]

Oh, I get a redo. I would delegate faster, higher, faster, damn. I feel like everyone says,

 

Steve Fretzin  [28:29]

You know what? I look I got this. I got this book behind me. I know if you heard of it, the 101 top Rainmaker secrets. It’s, it’s delegation number one answer on the board, and number two is systems. You have systems, and you delegate. You are way ahead of a competition on so many levels. Absolutely the whole I’m just gonna wing it.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [28:50]

No, I would not. It’s a dirty word, 10 out of 10. Do not recommend 11 out of 10. Do not do it up to 11. Oh, definitely, horrible advice. You know, that’s one thing I can guarantee you won’t work. You know, be faster in your decisions, but be strategic, right, like you. This is a business.

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:10]

Get that in your brand. What would you out? What would you outsource or delegate? If you had to, like, put them in order of like, what I want to get rid of, day one, day two, week, week 234,

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [29:20]

you know what I did? My I hired an executive assistant first. And a lot of people were like, hire a lawyer first, hire another lawyer. Don’t agree with that at all. Yeah. I said, No, no, no, I hire and I don’t regret my hires. I do not. I hired an EA first. And you need to build systems for the people you hire. You cannot just offload everything, right? You get so frustrated. You like, just do everything. And they’re like, Okay, what do I I don’t understand. So you need a system for that, right? Like, I love a system. My team says, Asia loves an SOP. I do. I learned a lot of acronyms, SOP, KPIs, like, all of the things to run this.

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:00]

Shit, yep, and people that don’t do them, that don’t get that and again, this, this is why consultants and coaches and people in this space exist. Because lawyers has been said a billion times, right? Don’t learn this in law school. You don’t learn this at law firm level. And trying to figure it out, you can do it. Everybody can figure it out themselves. It’s just very time consuming, and there’s a lot of mistakes and risk, and time is money and all of that. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not just to promote the consultants and coaches out there. And obviously, you know, you got to find the right ones and get referrals and like, go, go to people that have been proven out, but that that’s it. Like, I started day one with a bookkeeper. Like, no joke, I’m not I know how to read a report. I taught, I taught business owners before I got into my own business for four years. So I know what I’m doing. I also know I don’t want to have to invoice. I don’t want to have to keep track of my credit card statements. I don’t want none of that crap. Yeah, 500 a month. Get it away from me. Give me the reports once a month, paying my senior my salary right before you pass. You know that absolutely I outsource.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [31:09]

So on my team, the first hire was an EA, but outsourcing absolutely right, like P and O and who’s so also as an attorney, right? So I have an iota account. Someone has to manage that money and make sure that nothing is moving at the same time when it’s not supposed to be right, checks and balances. So 100% How can you run a firm without it? Well, I guess people try and and we see what happens. So I didn’t want to be that person. So yeah, absolutely. Delegate resources coaching. I invest in myself, which that means I invest in my clients. It goes that way, right? Like we have Cl leads, we have all the things, but a lot of attorneys don’t invest in themselves or their firm. For sure, got

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:52]

an email today, someone from my website. After six years of working in a firm, I’m moving out on my own in the summer. You know, can we talk? I’m just, I want to make sure I’ve got a plan. I want to make sure, you know, I’ll spend 30 minutes with an attorney to do that now, could, does she need me and everything I do? I don’t know. Yeah, right. And I’m not, that’s not my number one priority. My number one priority is, you know, seeing what someone does need. And if it’s me, great, let’s talk if it’s not me. And there’s other priorities that come in front of me, which there may be, and maybe that’s where it’s going, correct? That’s what I’m going to send her to the book, paper, you know, company to the VA company to hire that executive assistant, or whatever. Am I absolutely, and I’ll be, you know, down the road, waiting, you know, waiting in the wings. That’s okay, absolutely.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [32:37]

Steve, it’s actually the same way with us, right? So some people come to us, right? And they like, oh, I want a divorce. Fine. You may not need me to file first. I may need to refer you out to a financial advisor. This happens a lot, right? I network a lot for this reason to provide resources. You know, maybe we’ll come down to, you know, as a law office filing later. But let me help you. Know, 1234, steps, first, same concept within business. So that’s also maybe people just don’t really realize that, is that, you know you have to prepare for these things. You know, even my clients who need prenups, you know, some of them have never, ever sat down with an accountant and I’m like, what you don’t even know where anything is at. So that’s so true, right? You never know what you need until you need it, and you have to invest in yourself and your resources for sure.

 

Steve Fretzin  [33:27]

Wow, that’s a great, great way to end, except for one little thing that’s standing out there like a big old matzo ball, right? And that is what’s Asia’s big mistake. You like the matzo ball reference? Alright? Hey, it’s Pat. It just ended up Passover. There we go. I know, right.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [33:44]

Um, Steve, I didn’t charge enough in the beginning. I did not. I did not. And that is a big no no. You mean when it went down on your own, when I went out on my own, when I took in clients, big no no. We don’t have time for it. But I’m telling you, I hear it a lot. Unfortunately, I hear it a lot from women. You know, it just is what it is. You start out and you’re not charging enough. You have to charge what you’re worth. Do not be afraid. Charge it. They will pay it.

 

Steve Fretzin  [34:13]

Trust me, it’s honestly one of the first things I talked to a new solo or someone that’s been doing it for five years, and it’s this 20 year veteran attorney who’s brilliant. And I go, where, what are you charging? An hour out 325, 325, yeah, in Chicago, yeah. See, you know. And so there I start to bug out, and I go, All right, well, you know, we’re gonna be, we’re gonna be getting into this because that ship has sailed. Man, that’s not, that’s not where we are, you know, revenue in your pocket this year if you sell nothing else, thank you. Just from that. But anyway, that’s a great, that’s a great, a great takeaway. Know your value charge. You know, know, you know what your number should be from day one, and know what the market it’s. Yeah, yes, yes. Fantastic that everybody. Let’s, let’s talk about our sponsors. Shall we? We’ve got some amazing sponsors, of course, Lex reception. And here’s another thing to delegate. Don’t hire someone to be sitting at a desk, you know, you know, filing their nails all day. Get a virtual reception that can handle all your calls day and night. Lex reception, of course. Lawyer.com Great directory to network and find lawyers and put yourself out there to find business rankings, io and pimcon, two of my favorite groups, rankings, IO for search and getting leads in the door. And of course, pimcon The number one personal injury mastermind conference every year. And of course, if you haven’t heard about it yet and you’re just head in the sand, the be that lawyer community is live. It’s been live for a little bit now, and we’re busting out at the seams. We’ve got people coming in to learn business development, marketing, branding from our curated content, our live events, network with rainmakers, get advice from all the top players that you see on my show. And it’s not a lot of money. It’s really, really affordable. So again, you’re just trying to dip your toe in or just stay consistent with BD the be that lawyer community is the way to go. Check that out at be that lawyer.com All right, that was a mouthful, yeah. Let’s talk about your digits. How do people get in touch with you? They want to work with you. They want to know more about you.

 

I’Asia Scarlett-Jones  [36:14]

Yes. So ASj law office, go on to the website, find us on social, on YouTube, LinkedIn. I love a good LinkedIn, so please follow me. There lots of articles and just keeping up with me. Yeah, so ASj law office, everything.

 

Steve Fretzin  [36:30]

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, I had an idea at the very beginning that this was going to be fun and that we were going to give some great ideas out to my audience. And then, of course, you know multipliers by joining 30. So I just think you’re I think you’re amazing. I just love this, and I enjoyed it, and I hope you did too,

 

[36:49]

yes, yes, yes. Always a good time, always.

 

Steve Fretzin  [36:51]

All right, all right. Well, thank you, and thank you everybody for hanging out with us for the last 30 more and more content coming up above the law attorney at work, National Law Review. Be that lawyers all over there. The legal Broadcasting Company syndicates us. Man, we are everywhere. So you know, you’re not going to be shy finding videos on our YouTube channel. Steve Fretzin, and we’re just hoping to be, be your go to, to be that lawyer, confident, organized and skilled rainmakers. Everybody, take care. Be safe and well, and we will talk again soon.

 

Speaker 1  [37:25]

Thanks for listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.