Elise Holtzman: The Three Pillars of Business Development for Lawyers

Most lawyers are taught to color inside the lines until they realize that won’t build the book of business they want. In this episode, you’ll learn how to move from random acts of marketing to a focused, scalable rainmaking strategy using relationships, visible expertise, and a true support team.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Elise Holtzman discuss:

• Mindset shift from “born rainmaker” to “learned skill”
• Getting started: moving beyond random acts of marketing
• The three pillars of business development (relationships, visible expertise, thoughts/time/team)
• Breaking through plateaus at $500K+ and $1M+ books of business
• Delegation, building a team, and the role of a “lieutenant”/sponsor

Key Takeaways:

• Business development is a learnable skill, not an innate talent reserved for a select few; lawyers who treat it like any other competency they’ve mastered can grow serious books of business.
• Hope is not a strategy. Clarity on ideal clients, referral sources, and where they “hang out” must replace scattered networking and random acts of marketing.
• Visible expertise is essential: becoming “famous in your niche” through speaking, writing, and thought leadership ensures you’re not the best-kept secret in your practice area.
• As a book of business grows, time, team, and the courage to say no become critical levers; lawyers must deliberately delegate and build a trusted support structure if they want to scale beyond early successes.
• Every revenue level introduces new, different challenges; plateaus are not signs of failure but signals that it’s time to reassess, refine strategy, and upgrade how you use your time, team, and leadership.

“Stepping outside the comfort zone with support is the way to go.” —  Elise Holtzman

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About Elise Holtzman: Elise is the founder and CEO of The Lawyer’s Edge, a coaching and consulting firm that helps lawyers and law firms strengthen business development, leadership, and communication skills. A former practicing attorney with experience at Am Law 100 firms, including Fried Frank and Morgan Lewis, Elise combines her legal background with executive coaching to help attorneys grow profitable practices and build healthier firm cultures. She is a frequent speaker on leadership and rainmaking, host of The Lawyer’s Edge Podcast, and has been featured in publications including Law360 and The New York Law Journal. Elise earned her J.D. from Columbia Law School and her B.A. in Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania.

Connect with Elise Holtzman:

Website: https://thelawyersedge.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eliseholtzman/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin  [00:00]

Hey everybody, before we get to the show, really big announcement for you. This is one of the most important things I’ve done in nearly two decades of working exclusively in the legal industry. It is the be that lawyer community, and it’s officially live today. This is a global platform designed to help lawyers become rainmakers, grow their law practices and take control of their careers. And it’s built for individuals just like you who want more. And it’s also for law firms who want to bring real business development coaching and training to their teams with a strong return on investment. Inside you’re going to find a massive library of content, practical courses, live events and direct engagement with rainmakers from around the world who are there to answer your questions and help you grow. Membership is only 699, per lawyer. It discounts available for groups, and for a limited time, April 15 to April 30, you will get that deal as a founding member at that special rate I just mentioned, you have two weeks take action. Be that lawyer.com/community I’ll say it again. Be that lawyer.com/community to sign up today. Hope to see you there. And by the way, enjoy the show.

 

Announcer  [01:11]

You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode your host, author and lawyer coach. Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin, hey

 

Steve Fretzin  [01:33]

everybody. Steve Fretzin, and welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. We’ve been going rock solid for God, six years, 600 plus episodes, twice a week. We’re here to help you be that lawyer, someone who’s confident, organized in a skilled Rainmaker. And I know I’ve said this before, and if you’re a longtime listener, you’re bored of me saying it again. You know my job is just bring you amazing guests, right? Like that’s what this is all about. It’s not so much about me, although I love to chime in. You know that, but sometimes i i Take someone that’s a friend, someone that I know in the industry, that I just think the world of, and bring them on the show, and then I regret that I didn’t bring them on sooner. That is the case with Elise today. How are you doing?

 

Elise Holtzman  [02:10]

I’m great. I’m excited to be here. Yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [02:12]

we’re going to rock and roll today, starting off with your quote of the show, the ship is safest when it’s at Port. But that’s not what ships are built for. So welcome again, and tell us a little bit about

 

Speaker 1  [02:22]

that

 

Elise Holtzman  [02:22]

quote. So that comes from Paul Coelho, and I love that quote, because I think so many lawyers wind up trying to color inside the lines right. We’re so used to coloring inside the lines and getting it right and checking off the boxes and making sure everything’s perfect that we often get a little afraid to step outside of our comfort zone. And so, yeah, the ship is safest when it’s at Port. But that’s not what ships were built for. That’s not we were what we were built for, either, right? We have, as you said, you want to help your clients as do I become confident, you know, get out there, support their clients, be able to bring in the right clients. Love the work that they do. You know, knock it out of the park, deliver value, all of those sorts of things. And in order to be able to do that, I think that we have to be willing to color outside the lines, a little bit, step outside the comfort zone a little bit, you know, I’m not, I always say this. I’m not asking people to do the business development equivalent of throwing themselves off the George Washington Bridge or the bungee cord attached to their ankle, right? I think most people don’t want to be quite that crazy, but stepping outside the comfort zone with support is the way to go.

 

Steve Fretzin  [03:24]

Yeah, and look, we all agree that it’s disappointing that, you know, law school and the law firms don’t really do a great job of helping lawyers with this thing called the business side of law. But look, you’re in it. You’re swimming in the sea, and you need that. You need to get to land. So that’s what we’re going to talk about today and rock it out. So for you guys checking us out, Elise Holtzman is the founder and CEO of lawyers edge, amazing podcast, creator of lawyers making rain, and you and I have been friends for a number of years now, and you’re one of my favorite other coaches. There’s people that I just trust and respect at the highest level in the legal coaching game, and you’re right there at the peak of that. And I just am so thrilled that you’re here. But give everybody a little bit more. Little bit more on your background.

 

Elise Holtzman  [04:04]

Yeah. So I am a former practicing lawyer. When I graduated from law school, I did commercial real estate transactions at two large law firms in New York. Am law 100 firms. And, you know, it was a long time ago. My husband’s also a lawyer. We started having kids. The whole house of cards started to come down, because there wasn’t really anything such thing as part time. They were just trying it. I went and did it. They were happy to have me give it a try. I wanted to stay. They wanted me to stay. And it turned into like, you know, 7080, hours a week, part time. So I stepped back. I wasn’t really sure what I was going to be when I grew up. It just wasn’t working for us as a family. And then, you know, fast forward, about 18 years ago, I learned about executive and leadership coaching, and I wound up doing a full year certificate program, and that still not really knowing what I was going to do with it, and then realized that what I wanted to do was work with lawyers. So for all of that time, 17 plus years, I’ve worked exclusively with lawyers and law firms to help them grow thriving practices, and that’s basically through a combination of coaching. And programs, right group programs. So you know, how do we do this thing called business development? What does it mean to be a leader in a law firm? How do I get there when I’m so busy running around with my hair on fire, doing all the things that I need to do every day? So that’s kind of what I’ve been doing all these years.

 

Steve Fretzin  [05:14]

Yeah, and it’s incredible how many lawyers struggle with business development and growing a law practice because they’re just figuring it out on their own. And again, I get it like, I’m going to try to figure out how to play guitar, or I’m going to figure out how to, you know, run a marathon by myself. That’s fine, like you can do that. But when it comes to your career, your money, your time, your family, and, you know, I think it’s precious. And so I think, you know, what we want to talk about is, how do lawyers get started doing business development. I want to, you know, kind of take everybody through the life cycle of, how do we build a law practice, run a successful law practice, and then what do we do once we’ve hit the pinnacle at the top? And so let’s start at the very beginning with there’s someone listening right now that’s that wants to grow a book of business and has maybe done a couple things, maybe random acts of marketing. What should be the first couple things that someone does to say, you know, I want to get serious about this, and I need to do this right. I

 

Elise Holtzman  [06:08]

think there are a couple things that can happen. First of all, I think the recognition that they can do it right. I think a lot of people think rainmakers are born, not made. And you and I know that, yeah, sure, for some people, it’s more natural for some people, it seems to come easily. But the fact is, you and I wouldn’t have businesses if we didn’t know for sure that people can learn this. So you can learn this. So adopt that mindset. Anything that you’ve wanted to do in the past, you’ve learned it, and you’ve knocked it out of the park, and there’s no reason you can’t do that here as well. So I think mindset is a big piece of it. And then also understand that it’s not a solo sport. So whether or not you work with a coach like you, Steve or like me, or whether you figure it out on your own or do it with a friend or someone internally, or somebody on the marketing team at your law firm, you don’t have to do this yourself, right? There are people that can help you. And so there are books you can read and videos that you can watch, and you know mentors that you can talk to. There’s so much out there for you, so don’t feel like there’s another quote, something along the lines of success leaves clues. So anything that you want to do, somebody else has already done, and that’s true with business development as well. So I think the mindset piece is important, and recognizing you don’t have to do it alone. And then I think that getting focused, right? You talked about, you mentioned random acts of marketing. And understandably so, this is what a lot of lawyers start out doing. You know, I’ll talk to, I’ll take someone out to lunch over here, and I’ll go to a conference over there, and, you know, maybe they’ll figure out that they should hire me. And I hope they hire me. And the thing is, hope is not a strategy. So the thing is to develop some kind of strategy so that you are focused on your ideal clients, right? Who are your ideal clients and referral sources. It’s not just the clients, it’s also the referral sources. Yeah, where do they hang out? What kind of information do they need? Right? Let’s get you focused so you’re not running around throwing spaghetti at the wall, because nothing will take the wind out of your sails faster than trying a bunch of things, devoting time, money and energy to this, and not seeing any results.

 

Steve Fretzin  [08:10]

Yeah, it’s a little bit like I’ve decided to take my family to Africa, and we’re not doing those expensive Safari Screw that. I’ve decided that we’re going to start at the bottom tip, the most southern part, and we’re just going to walk our way through to the top of Africa together. We don’t have a compass, we don’t have a guide. We don’t know how to have any money. We don’t have any navigation. So is it lions that are going to eat us or cheap? What’s going to take us down? Right? Is it going to be relevant? We would never do that. Right? Think about what you do just before you go to like into the city for a night or before you you have a plan. And so I think the problem is, is that lawyers don’t realize that they need to think about what you said the targets, and where their referral sources are and all of that. Where did they get business in the last year or two? And how do we create a plan, a written plan that acts as a GPS, that allows us to go for where the business is, versus those random acts of marketing that are being done all over the place,

 

Elise Holtzman  [09:04]

right? And I think that the idea of having a plan is that many lawyers say, great idea. Elise, great idea. Steve, I don’t even know where to start. And so, you know, we’re talking about this idea of, how do you get started? And one of the things I talk about a lot, and I’ll just say it quickly, is these three pillars of business development that I have. Because one of the things we know about lawyers is we like structure, right? We’re used to structure. We like, we kind of like rules, or, you know, loose rules that we can operate within. And so my three pillars are, the first one is all about relationship development. It’s all about relationships with other people. Like, no matter what you’re doing, unless you’re the kind of lawyer who is advertising on billboards or bus benches. You know you’re and even those lawyers typically say, Oh, my best clients come through referrals, right? But you are not going to develop a book of business without focusing on relationships. And so it’s relationships with people you already know, people that are already in your contacts, and people that you are going to meet. So you’ve got. Nurture the relationships you already have and then develop new ones. The second pillar is all about visible expertise, right? So, you know, I’m not asking you to get famous like Oprah or famous like, you know, Steve Fretzin. I’m asking you to get famous in your niche. And actually, going back to the Steve frets and thing, Steve Fretzin is kind of famous in his niche, right? He works specifically with lawyers, and so he doesn’t have to be like Oprah. He just needs to get to be known by the people who might want to work with him. And I work on doing that as well. So it’s really all about delivering value in the marketplace, and we typically talk about that as thought leadership, right? So what are you writing? Where are you speaking? Are you, you know? Are you on panels at conferences? Are you appearing on podcasts? So I’m on your podcast, Steve, you’ve been on my podcast right? Where can people listen to you and have you share some value with them? So that’s, you know, we don’t want you to be a best kept secret. And then the third piece is all about what I would call the three pillars of the 3t of leadership growth, and that’s thoughts, time and team. So we started to talk about the thoughts a little bit, right? What’s your mindset about this? Like, if you say, Well, I just have no time for business development, you and I both know it’s not easy to make the time for business development, but it is critical. And so we all have the same 24/7, so that’s where the time comes in and then the team piece of it is, again, it doesn’t have to be a solo sport. And also, are you the kind of lawyer that feels like you have to do everything so you’re never able to free up your time for the highest and best use, which in many ways for private practice lawyers, includes business development. So if you can focus on relationships in the with the right people. Focus on becoming visible as a leading authority in your area of practice, and you can arrange things so that you create time in your schedule, and you’re delegating out to the right people and having other people help you with business development, that’s just a really good foundational place to start.

 

Speaker 1  [11:58]

Yeah,

 

Steve Fretzin  [11:58]

you’ve got three T’s, I’ve got three Ps, so might as well throw them out there. Yeah, I want someone to be great at guitar. I want someone to be great as an athlete. What does it take? Same thing with business development. So the first P is planning, right? You’ve got to have a plan. Low hanging fruit, best use of your time, right? Yeah, best results for the time invested. The second piece process, I think where you and I come in is, you know, giving lawyers steps to follow language, to use things that that they don’t have to figure out on their own, and when they put those in particular, by the way, the introverts shout out to the introverts. This is where introverts can shine. Is they’re longing for us, a process, a system, a methodology, so they don’t have to try to be an extrovert and try to get out there and hustle press flesh. So having a good process is number two of the P’s, and then the third P is performance improvement. You have a process. You’re learning it. How are you using it? On the field, making mistakes, learning from the mistakes, and coming across better and better and better as the time goes on. If you improve on something, anything, guitar, a sport, whatever, over a period of a year, where you make mistakes and then don’t make them again, think about how powerful that is. So we’ve got three T’s, we’ve got three P’s, I know if we have 3l and M’s, but you know, we might have to stop there. But I think ultimately, if you’re looking to get started in business development, and you’re really looking to push your chips in, having a plan, having some systems learning from Elise and myself, the content that’s out there, be a student of the game, and that’s going to be maybe one way to get, you know, to that first couple 100,000 maybe half a million, right? Let’s change to the people that are listening right now, and for the folks that are they’ve been out there. They’ve built that half a million dollar they’re now a business developer. Things change, though. Things aren’t always just easily and easy and consistent. So what changes once someone builds a book of business and that can stop them from getting to that million dollar mark. And what are we what are they doing to get through it?

 

Elise Holtzman  [14:03]

Yeah, this is such an important point, because you and I both know this absolutely happens, right? People are going gangbusters. They’re so excited what they’re doing is working, and now they feel like they’re having trouble getting to whatever that next number is. So I think a couple things, first of all, are you now doing things you know to your point process improvement or learning. Are you are you honing what you’re doing right? Are you looking around and saying, Well, what got me here? Won’t get me there, right? I’ve done these really good things. Some of these things are working really well. First of all, are you getting the right clients? And are you doing some things that are actually not working. It’s okay to say no to things. In fact, we have to say no to things. We can’t just keep doing things because we’ve been doing them. So for a couple of years, you’ve been doing something, and you look at it and you say, you know something, I realize now that 86% of my clients are coming through this way, maybe through referral sources, a certain kind of referral source. And I. I’m doing this other thing over here that’s taking a lot of my time, but I’m really not getting much bang for my buck. We’ve got to sit down and breathe and look at our data. And I hope you’ve been keeping some data, right? It doesn’t have to be some major spreadsheet. It can just, it can be a spreadsheet. You throw some stuff in there, right? I get, I hear where my clients typically come from. I’ve done this for two years. I’ve thrown myself into it deeply as a volunteer. You know what? I’ve actually gotten nothing out of it, and they’re nice people, but it’s not a good fit for me. So an example that I use, and it’s a really basic, pedestrian one, is that when I first started coaching, I joined the coaching Federation. I, in fact, I was the president of the local chapter for a while, and I actually joined a very active Chamber of Commerce. The Morris County Chamber of Commerce in New Jersey was a fantastic chamber. What I realized was that was about the time I was deciding that I wanted to work exclusively with lawyers. I had only been coaching for a short period of time. Well, guess what? I think at the Morris County Chamber, as fabulous as it was, I met maybe three or four lawyers, and at the coaching Federation. I was meeting nothing but coaches. Well, guess what? I needed to stop hanging out in those places and start hanging out with lawyers. And so that’s a very basic example, right? But you get the idea. I think sometimes people start to over rely on, well, I have a plan, right? So you mentioned the plan so important, but not being so married to the plan that you can’t pivot. And so right? Are these the right clients for you? Are they bringing in enough money, right? Should you be up leveling your clients a little bit, right? So maybe you’re bringing in a certain kind of client, but now that you’ve got that experience, you’d like to talk a little bit more to people about how well now I’m able to serve this kind of client. So I think just really taking the time to evaluate what you’re doing, and look at it with a beginner’s mind, even though you’re in a in a different place. Now look at it with a beginner’s mind and saying, say, Okay, how do I shift this using the same principles, you know, using the three pillars, using the 3p and the three T’s, all of those sorts of things, but now I’m in a different place, because the three pillars and all the things that you and I’ve talked about, they remain the same, but you have changed. You as a rainmaker, you as a leader, have changed. And so I think looking at again is really important,

 

Steve Fretzin  [17:09]

yeah. And I think the key here might be time, because, you know, here’s the thing, you just brought in a ton of business. You’re now at a half a million dollars. Congratulations. Now you’re busier than you’ve ever been. You’ve got your work, you’ve got your other partners work, and you’ve got everything else, your family and a whole life, and now you’re like, how do I do more business development? Because now I’m in this trap. So that the thought might be to your point, Elise, is you have to start saying no to a bunch of stuff, right? Things that take up your time. The one that that you didn’t cover, that I want to add is there is a time where you need to start saying no to your partners, because you’re bringing in business, and I know you’re on the same wavelength. I’m out and right,

 

Elise Holtzman  [17:49]

yeah, no, I It’s really true. And that’s where the third pillar comes in, as much more important as you become more successful, yeah, because, as you’re saying, You need to build that team around you, and that means being able to say, that means being able to say no to just doing everything so as an exit, to use your example, and you’re so, right, Steve, I didn’t mean to, I just got excited. I didn’t mean to cut

 

Steve Fretzin  [18:12]

you off. But look, you’re that. You’re the star of the show here.

 

Elise Holtzman  [18:14]

Yeah, not exactly, but so, but here’s the idea, right? So now you’ve been, let’s say you’ve been doing most of your work for for several years, you were doing most of your work for other partners. And this is, I know I’m making your point. You were doing a lot of work for other partners. Now you’re bringing in your own work. Those partners are still asking you to do their work, because that’s their plan, right? That’s their team, is you, right? And so the thing is, yes, it’s helpful. It’s been helpful up until now for you to do their work, but now you need to not be serving their clients. You need to be serving your clients. You have to see, understand where that balance is that’s going to shift over time. So the more business you’re bringing in, the less able you are to do work for other partners. That means, from the team perspective, you’ve got to help them substitute other people in, or just be able to say no and build a team around you of associates and counsel and maybe partners who are junior to you in the same way those partners built you into their team, right? So it’s saying no, it’s delegating more. It doesn’t mean abdicating. I mean lawyers hate delegating. Steve, you and I both know this is that the mantra seems to be, if I want something done right, I have to do it myself, and we’ve got to shift that mantra to if I want something done right, I delegate it to the person who is most able to do it at the lowest hourly rate possible, right, somebody who does it at a lower hourly rate than I do. And yes, you’re the strategist, and yes, you’re the reviewer, and you’re the person who makes sure that everything gets done properly for the client. But yes, that that time and that team becomes even more important. And as people move then from 500 to a million and way more than a million. I mean, I’ve got a client right now who came to me with five and a half million. She’s at a large firm. She came to me with five and a half million in business, not only, I mean, and look her firm. Sees her as a superstar. So what’s the next thing that happens? The firm says, Oh my gosh, Steve, you’re fabulous. You have all of this business. We love you. We want you to become practice group leader, or we want you to become, go on the Management Committee, or we want you to become chair of this

 

Speaker 1  [20:14]

big

 

Steve Fretzin  [20:14]

committee,

 

Elise Holtzman  [20:15]

right? Manage this office, or whatever it may be. And you’re like, hold on a second. You know now I’m supposed to be managing this team, building the team, bringing in all this business, serving my clients. I still have other partners coming to me for help, and you want me to run this practice group or the firm, and, oh yeah, I have kids at home and or mom to take care of, or whatever it may be. And so going back to your point, saying no is absolutely critical. And you’re not saying no in any kind of horrible way where you don’t care what happens to other people. You’re just saying, I really would love to be able to help you. Unfortunately, I am or fortunately, right. Unfortunately, I just don’t have the bandwidth, because I have all these other clients to serve. So I think that that’s where somebody asked me recently, like, why would somebody with five and a half million dollars in business come to you for coaching when she’s obviously such a great Rainmaker. And I said, like at her level, it’s not about knowing what to do for rain making. It’s about getting even more focused. You know, who are the clients that she really wants to be focused on, who are the prospects that she really wants to be focused on? How does she build her team? How does she say no? How does she make sure that she’s getting all the origination credit that she deserves? Right? How is she How is she hiring in some of the right lateral so those are the kinds of things that they don’t sound like business development, because none of the things I just mentioned are directly business development. It’s not running out there and meeting people, it’s not being on panels and podcasts, but it is that’s that pillar three stuff that is so critical, because unless you free up that time, you’re not going to be able to keep building your practice. And so she, in a year, she was able to build her practice almost double her practice simply by doing the sorts of things that we’re talking about and, you know, and I’m not patting myself on the back, it’s not like I did it for her, she did it, but it’s getting that mindset in place that she’s at a different level now, and she has to say no, and she has to build her team, and she has to delegate.

 

Speaker 1  [22:14]

Hey,

 

Steve Fretzin  [22:17]

everybody, your next big client might call it 8pm on a Saturday night. The question is, who’s picking up with Lex reception? A real person answers every call, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, so you never miss a lead, no matter when they reach out, no AI agents, no voicemail, just professional legal literate receptionist representing your firm the right way around the clock, and right now you that lawyer. Listeners get 250 off their first month visit www, dot lex reception.com/partners/be, that lawyer to claim your offer that’s www, dot lex reception.com/partners/be, that lawyer. Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin, here and@lawyer.com They don’t just market law firms. They help them grow. From connecting millions of consumers to trusted lawyers to smarter intake and industry leading events, they’re building stronger connections across legal visibility, intake, events, growth. That’s lawyer.com Check them out today with proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm. Rankings.io. Prides itself on proof, not promises. Mentality. The best firms hire rankings.io. When they want rankings, traffic and cases other law firm marketing agencies can’t deliver, get more rankings, get cases and schedule a free consultation@rankings.io today. Yes. I mean, as we walk through the, you know, the lifeline of of a rainmaker, right? How do you get started with planning and process and learning the skills and building up and honing the skills to where you are in the middle as a business developer, bringing up time and figuring out how you’re going to, you know, set yourself up to get to the million. Then you’ve got the people at 1,000,002 345, and they’ve got their own, you know, separate set of of issues with more responsibility. And, you know, one thing that that I would like to add is, and I think let’s go back and forth on this a couple times, is, you know, Jerry madman is one of my favorite guests that I’ve had on the show couple times, and his big deal is, you know, as a 40, $50 million guy, right is you have to have a number two. And when I say that, you know what I mean, it’s not, not the bad number two. The good number two is, you need to find a lieutenant, someone that that isn’t looking to build a book of business, but would love to sidle up to you and partner with you, where you can both benefit from a relationship, where they help take over some client responsibilities. They take over some management responsibilities, administrative, whatever it is that allows you to stay out on the field building business and the lawyers that do that and figure out, Hey, can I just be out seven? Selling business and handling high end strategy for these clients, and that’s kind of my job, versus five or six or eight different hats that these million dollar plus players have to wear that sort of in my take the promised land for lawyers that want to make rain making their focus.

 

Elise Holtzman  [25:19]

Yeah, totally. Steve, so there are a couple of ways to think about this. I use the term Lieutenant also, right? This is your right hand. This is somebody who would run through a wall for you, and you would run through a wall for them. You get each other. You you understand what each role is. You support each other. This is where sponsorship comes in, right? And so the concept of sponsorship versus mentorship, which many people know now, but you know, mentor is somebody who’s, you know, gone, gone down a certain path and can give you advice and help you, and they just do it because they want to pay it forward. Right? We all get to a certain level where we know some things we want to pay it forward. Sponsorship has always been around, but it wasn’t identified until several years ago as being kind of a defined term where sponsorship is you’re, so you’re, let’s say you’re the $1 million Rainmaker, the $2 million Rainmaker. You want to make it grow. And so now to your point, Steve, you identify someone. Now this person has to be identifiable. This is why the team building is so important. Have you found somebody that you really trust, and not just that. They sprung out of the ground fully formed. You know, you can, you can work on someone, you develop someone, you grow someone. So now you’re a teacher, you’re a mentor, but the sponsorship is where you’re helping them grow, and they’re helping you grow. So yes, that Lieutenant isn’t just doing it out of the goodness of his or her heart. They’re doing it because they’re getting some value from it as well. They’re getting to work with really cool clients. They have a lot of agency. You’re putting them in great situations where they can learn and grow, and they’re putting you in a situation where you can now go out and you can focus on the highest and best use of your time, because you’re not in the weeds.

 

Speaker 1  [26:58]

Yeah,

 

Elise Holtzman  [26:59]

right, they’re in the weeds more. And so this is all about again, you know, developing, but not just expect looking around going, Oh, well, I don’t have anybody like that, and throwing in the towel, develop someone like that. That’s part of your job now, is developing people around you who can help you succeed.

 

Steve Fretzin  [27:15]

What it reminds me of too Elise is the entrepreneurial business concept of golden handcuffs. And so I think what you’re saying is not just bringing up the right person. Right person for the right reasons and doing all the things that takes to make a great partnership, a great team, a great teammate. Don’t be greedy with your origination. You know, give them 10% 20% something that allows them to grow their wealth and their revenue as your second, as your lieutenant, as you build and focus and they’re managing everything. They’re going to get management credit. They’re going to get origination, if you’re smart, and that way, you’re keeping someone in place long term. But just a caveat, you need to make sure that you maintain the client relationships, because if you bring in your second they take over all the client relationships, and you’re out just building new and you don’t then what happens if things don’t last with that team aid, right? And they’re like, Well, I’m doing all the work, I’m managing all these things, and then they take all of that and leave right? Then, where are you? So I think there’s a balance that has to happen there. And just put a fine point on that, and then we’ll wrap things

 

Speaker 1  [28:13]

up.

 

Elise Holtzman  [28:14]

Yeah, you’re right, and it has to be a balance. And I think that there’s got to be a recognition, too. A lot of people, Steve, don’t want to give up any origination credit. Well, I brought the client in. You know, I touched client in 1979 I don’t care how much somebody else has been involved. And the fact of the matter is that, you know, I mean, 60% of something is better than 50 or 100% of nothing. And so these people are there to help you grow. Yes. Are they going to get value too? Yes. And as well they should. And I’ve seen this time and time again, and I know you’ve seen it too, where you know the junior partner comes in, or now is a mid level partner has really worked hard on your client, has developed a relationship. And now somebody at the firm, somebody at the company you know, wants this person to be running the deal, and in order for them not to take work from someone else, they want a little bit of origination credit. I say, give it to them. I agree with you. But to your point, maintain that relationship so that it you can, with a straight face, say that this is your client. You’ve got to continue to serve that client. So I think there’s so many. Every level has its opportunities and challenges. You know, whether you’re starting out or you’re sort of just getting rolling and you’re all excited about it, don’t let the challenges that come up at each level convince you that you’re somehow doing something wrong or that you’re not cut out for this. Instead, I would say, view it as a recognition that you’re succeeding, and as a result of that, the challenges are changing because you’re standing in a different place, so the challenges are going to be a little bit different. So don’t let them get you down. Go, oh my god, this is awesome. I have new challenges. That must mean that I’m succeeding.

 

Steve Fretzin  [29:47]

Yeah, and every stage, from I’ve made a decision as a lawyer to build a book of business, to gain independence, freedom, control of my career, to I’m doing it now. I’m building up to get to that first million there’s challenge. Is there, and there’s challenges at the three to five, $10 million level, all of them are challenges. But that’s the beauty of you know, life is that we work through these things and and we overcome them, and we make mistakes, and we hopefully make small mistakes. Speaking of mistakes, by the way, I have a question for you, what’s Elise’s big mistake?

 

Elise Holtzman  [30:16]

So my mistake is something that I’ve learned over and over again, and yet I’m still not always so good at it. So I’m going to say it’s an ongoing mistake, and it’s very much the mistake that I was talking about before. When it comes to many, many lawyers, because of the way we’re wired, we tend not to be particularly good at delegating and building a team around us. And so one of the things that when I started my business, you know, of course, I didn’t have three cents to rub together. So I was trying to do everything myself. I remember spending three days trying to do my own books in March, right before tax season came, trying to recreate books from the year before. That was such

 

Steve Fretzin  [30:51]

a shame, for

 

Elise Holtzman  [30:52]

sure, it was so shameful. I It’s an embarrassing story, but I tell it because I think it happens to so many people. And I hired a bookkeeper. She’s like my lifeline, the best thing that ever happened to me, you know, hired Director of Operations, hired an assistant. And sometimes, you know, I just onboarded a new assistant. Because sometimes it doesn’t always work out. But don’t again. Don’t throw your hands in the air and says, Well, this, you know, say this assistant thinks it. Or I delegated once to some a paralegal, and she didn’t do it the way I wanted it to. So obviously, delegating is a bad idea. I think that just this idea that understanding that you are not, first of all, you’re not good at everything, you’re really good at lawyering. So now let other people who who are really good at these other things, do their jobs. You know, delegate, don’t abdicate, but also don’t micromanage, and let them bring their skills and talents and core genius to the table. And so I’ve gotten significantly better at that over the years, and I’m still learning. I will admit,

 

Steve Fretzin  [31:47]

well, it’s a great takeaway. I mean delegation. And you and I both, you know, have to go through that and and have makes, you know, bad hires and mistakes and things. I think lawyers, you know, more than anything, systems, delegation, I mean all these things that they need to do that. They’re not so really, really good. Take a moment. Thank our wonderful sponsors, lawyer.com amazing Lex, reception rankings, io and pimcon. And of course, if you haven’t heard about the new be that lawyer community. We are now have a circle community that’s built to help you get started. Whether you’re a rain baker or you’re you’re at the beginning stages to make sure you get proper education, courses, video library and live events and everything in between. So check that out at be that lawyer.com/community at least people want to get in touch with you. They want to learn about your coaching and your podcast. Give all that digits out

 

Elise Holtzman  [32:33]

Absolutely. So you can reach out to me at Elise E, L, i, s, e, at the lawyers edge calm. You can find me on LinkedIn, and I invite you to if you have room for another podcast other than Steve’s, which is important to stick with. I have a podcast called The lawyer’s edge, same name as my business, and I’m not quite caught up to you, Steve. We’ve got more than 200 episodes, but we’re working to catch up, so I get to interview really cool people as well. Some good advice there too.

 

Steve Fretzin  [33:01]

Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. Well, again, I just as we started, I think the world of you, I I really believe in my heart that when either I send a lawyer you or a lawyer decides to work with you, that they’re in very, very capable hands, only good things are going to happen as long as they put the commitment in. And so I’m really thrilled for you and your success and and thanks for coming on the show and sharing all your wisdom today, I think we really hit a lot of a lot of marks as it relates to the the lifeline of a lawyer, as you know, becoming a rainmaker and beyond. So kudos. Kudos to us. We did it together.

 

Elise Holtzman  [33:31]

We did it. Thank you so much. Steve, you and I have so much fun with this, because we’re big business development nerds, so it’s fun to be able to talk to you about this stuff. Very,

 

Steve Fretzin  [33:38]

very true, very true. All right. Well, thank you, and thank you, and thank you everybody for hanging out with us for the last 30 hopefully you got as many notes as I have and and helping you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. Take care. Everybody, be safe and well, and we will talk again so very soon.

 

Announcer  [33:58]

Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.