What happens when a trial lawyer stops replicating the traditional firm model and starts treating her practice like a business? In this episode, Simone Fulmer Gaus shares the five-part framework that took her from burnout and cash-flow crises to a scalable, values-driven law firm.
In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Simone Fulmer Gaus discuss:
- Facing hard truths and business challenges in law practice
- Leaving the traditional firm model to build a different kind of practice
- The five pillars: people, pipeline, process, product, profitability
- Delegation, time blocking, and working on the business
- Values-based hiring and retaining the right team
Key Takeaways:
- You cannot build a healthy, scalable practice if you insist on personally controlling every aspect of the firm.
- Treating the firm as its own “entity” that needs care and strategy, separate from the legal work, changes how you make decisions.
- Structuring the business into clear buckets (people, pipeline, process, product, profitability) gives clarity on what’s broken and what to fix first.
- Setting aside dedicated time each week to work on the business, not just in it, is essential to moving out of chaos.
- Hiring and retaining the right people depends less on résumés and more on alignment with clearly defined core values.
“You can automate so much of what you could do, you can delegate so much of what you do, and you can definitely, whether you believe it or not, eliminate a whole lot of those hats you’re wearing.” — Simone Fulmer Gaus
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About Simone Fulmer Gaus: Simone Fulmer Gaus is a nationally recognized plaintiff trial lawyer and co-founder of Fulmer Sill, with nearly three decades of experience in high-stakes civil litigation. Specializing in insurance bad-faith disputes and catastrophic injury cases, Simone brings a unique “insider” perspective to her practice, having begun her career in the general counsel’s office of a major insurance company. Since 1998, she has leveraged this knowledge to hold powerful insurers accountable, ensuring they honor their obligations to policyholders and injured individuals.
Beyond the courtroom, Simone is a respected author and speaker, focusing on law firm leadership and operational structure. Her work is informed by both professional rigor and personal experience; after a family member sustained a traumatic brain injury, she deepened her commitment to families facing life-altering harm. Today, she balances her role as an advocate with her work as the author of The Set-Up, helping other trial firms achieve sustainable growth through disciplined preparation and strategic clarity.
Connect with Simone Fulmer Gaus:
Website: https://www.fulmersill.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simonefulmergaus/
Connect with Steve Fretzin:
LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin
Twitter: @stevefretzin
Instagram: @fretzinsteve
Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.
Website: Fretzin.com
Email: Steve@Fretzin.com
Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!
YouTube: Steve Fretzin
Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911
Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Steve Fretzin [00:00]
Hey everybody, before we get to the show, really big announcement for you. This is one of the most important things I’ve done in nearly two decades of working exclusively in the legal industry. It is the be that lawyer community, and it’s officially live today. This is a global platform designed to help lawyers become rainmakers, grow their law practices and take control of their careers. And it’s built for individuals just like you who want more. And it’s also for law firms who want to bring real business development coaching and training to their teams with a strong return on investment. Inside you’re going to find a massive library of content, practical courses, live events and direct engagement with rainmakers from around the world who are there to answer your questions and help you grow. Membership is only 699, per lawyer. It discounts available for groups, and for a limited time, April 15 to April 30, you will get that deal as a founding member at that special rate I just mentioned, you have two weeks take action. Be that lawyer.com/community I’ll say it again. Be that lawyer.com/community to sign up today. Hope to see you there. And by the way, enjoy the show.
Narrator [01:11]
You’re listening to be that lawyer, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author and lawyer coach. Steve Fretzin, we’ll take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host. Steve Fretzin,
Steve Fretzin [01:33]
everybody. Steve Fretzin, welcome to the be that lawyer podcast. I am so thrilled that you’re here every week, twice a week. We’ve been doing this for a while. We’re over 600 episodes. So if you want to go back and check out some of our rainmakers, check out some of our experts. We also have a fantastic YouTube channel. If you go to Steve Fretzin, you can watch the full videos, you can watch the snippets of the highlight reel, if you will, of our show, and just take in this content any way you can. The goal is to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized and a skilled Rainmaker. So with that, I’m going to say hello to Simone. How are you good to see you?
Speaker 1 [02:07]
I’m doing great. Happy birthday to you.
Steve Fretzin [02:10]
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, the Big Five, six. I was a covid 50, so that was not a great birthday for 50. But
Simone Fulmer Gaus [02:17]
bet and
Steve Fretzin [02:18]
I’m not a big birthday guy. I don’t like the birthday song, like, my mother in law reached out to me this morning, and she’s like, my throat is really rough, so I’m not doing the song. I was like, I don’t like the song. I don’t want to hear the song. Like, I just want to have a blow out a candle and spit all over your cake. But I don’t want to hear the song, if I can help it. That’s just me. I just weird that way. I think they should read they got to redo the song anyway.
Steve Fretzin [02:37]
Yeah.
Steve Fretzin [02:38]
But I appreciate the kind birthday wishes. Let’s jump in. Let’s knock out this quote of the show. James Baldwin, so here we go. Not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced. Well, I like that a lot. So again, welcome to the show and tell us why that quote is your favorite quote.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [02:56]
Oh, it just resonates so deeply with me. Because, like many humans, I have a tendency to, you know, just get in automatic, and you see stuff coming at you, and you just stay in automatic, and you have problems that you just don’t face. You know, you can turn into an ostrich and ignore them, but once you face them, although painful, usually, it takes you somewhere else, somewhere that is empowering, somewhere that just attributes to your growth. And I just like remembering that, plus I like James Baldwin in general.
Steve Fretzin [03:36]
Well, my own little spin, if I may,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [03:39]
no
Steve Fretzin [03:40]
business development for lawyers. I mean, not anything that was signed up for when they became lawyers, right? We could be you became a lawyer. It’s not. It wasn’t on the list of why I’m, you know, getting into the law. So now you’re faced with this challenge of building your own book and bringing in your own clients and scaling a business, or whatever your jam is. Or you could just, again, hide behind your computer in the billable hour and just build work and hope that everything works out in the end. I’m not, I’m not of that ilk, but that’s how I see this and in everything in life, right? We’ve got to face it. You can’t just ignore it. So really, really love that. Hey everybody, I’ve got a Simone Fulmer Gaus here on the line with me. She is the founder of Gaus Sill or Fulmer Sill, I should say. And so happy that. How did we meet originally? Do you recall?
Simone Fulmer Gaus [04:27]
Uh huh? Susan. Susan filam,
Steve Fretzin [04:29]
- Susan filan, okay,
Steve Fretzin [04:31]
yeah, wow. Susan,
Steve Fretzin [04:33]
I appreciate the introduction. And
Simone Fulmer Gaus [04:34]
me too.
Steve Fretzin [04:35]
Yeah, awesome, awesome. So give us a little background how you came to be and and what you’re currently up to.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [04:40]
Okay. Well, I am a lawyer. Been a lawyer for 30 years. I was actually a music teacher before that kind of a totally whole different move. But I practiced in a fairly a good size, medium sized firm doing plaintiff work. I was there for 17 years. Years, and we were doing really complex cases, took a lot out of you, and I also had young kids at home, and I, one day, you know, just had this epiphany, it’s time. I’d never thought about starting my own firm. I think it takes me back to, you know, our quote for today. I just kept going. You work the 90 hours a week. You miss bedtimes. You know, I always say, the year my son turned two and my daughter five, I was away from home for 38 nights. That’s more than a month that I’m away from my kids, and all I ever really wanted was to be a mom, and but that epiphany hit, and once it did, it just wouldn’t go away. I need to start my own firm. And so that’s what I did almost 12 years ago, and it’s interesting. I wanted things to be different for my team, I wanted you know we’re still doing complex work, class actions, we sue insurance companies. We do complex catastrophic injuries. So we’re still doing that kind of work. And to figure out, how can you do that kind of work without losing yourself in the process and over time, and after a little I’d say, I call it my plan B moment. But we had a month we couldn’t make payroll, and it was early on to borrow money from my dad. I was 48 years old, asking my dad for money. Very humbling, but that was my wake up call. You know, that was that thing that comes at you, and you just, I have to face this. And I started really studying businesses. And at the time, there wasn’t a lot out there for law firms. I think that John Morgan had a book out, but I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing that high volume model that he done so well. So I just started pulling from everywhere else. Harvard Business Review became my friend and joined a mastermind, and ultimately, really examined the firm and realized that I was running the firm the only way I’d ever seen it done, and it’s the way a lot of lawyers run their business, which is like, we run a case, we take on a case, and everything that needs to happen in that case, we figure it out, and we tell someone else what to do. If you’re good at delegating, even a lot of us just hold on to it. And I was running the firm like that, and so what I realized is that there are really five areas that, if you put your focus on, actually are found the foundation for the business, and that’s people, pipeline, process, product and profitability. I call it the setup. I’ve just written a book about it, but our firm just grew and scaled, and not something I ever intended. I just wanted to practice law, you know, but in figuring out how to make it work, I figured out a framework that I think can help other people and and that’s what I’m doing now,
Steve Fretzin [08:12]
yeah, I want to dive into that with you.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [08:14]
Yeah,
Steve Fretzin [08:15]
in great detail before we do that, though, there were specific things that you went through that weren’t working, that other lawyers are going through as they try to build and scale a law practice. What would you say are the top two or three challenges that you had, or that you see other firms having that really block them from the promised land of building something great?
Simone Fulmer Gaus [08:38]
I think it is the mindset that I have to be in control of all of
Steve Fretzin [08:43]
this. You got to be. You got to do it all.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [08:45]
Yeah, and it’s hard not to do that. You know, we went to law school. We’re the ones the clients hire. But the client doesn’t just hire you. They hire what surrounds you. They hire what it is that makes you better. And if you let go of thinking, I’m the foundation of everything, and you create a foundation that is based on what you want it to be, people, pipeline, process, product, profitability, when you create that foundation underneath you, it frees you up in a way that you can really focus on what you want to focus on. You can be the lawyer you want to be if you’re a trial lawyer, put all your energy into being a great trial lawyer and let the people around you support you in a way that they’re best suited for. So the mistake I think we make is thinking we have to hold it all,
Steve Fretzin [09:43]
yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [09:44]
and we don’t, and we’re, in fact, better when we don’t,
Steve Fretzin [09:48]
yeah. So I think that’s critical, is, and I think that goes deeper than than maybe anything, because you’re still doing the bookkeeping, you’re still doing administrative jobs, you’re still doing the stuff that is, you know. 20 to $50 an hour, when the reality is there’s no way for you to do everything, and what’s the best use of your time?
Steve Fretzin [10:07]
Exactly,
Steve Fretzin [10:07]
what would be another big barrier to a law firm that’s not making it and why they’re not breaking through?
Simone Fulmer Gaus [10:15]
I think it goes back to that we put our heads down,
Steve Fretzin [10:19]
yeah.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [10:19]
So we, for me, honestly, I was trying to practice law at the highest level. I always had that was I was a lawyer’s lawyer, you know, that’s what I did. And so I’m trying to do that and kind of avoiding the fact that now I worked contingency fee cases, and I was working insurance bad faith cases, which take not only money to for experts, depositions, all the travel you have to do, but those cases settle on a long timeline, and when I finally stepped so our cash flow issue, which led to we can’t pay make payroll, and having to get my dad to loan me money for payroll, really was because I wasn’t looking at my firm as a business. I was looking at what I call the product we were creating. I was looking at the way we were showing up, but I wasn’t as lawyers, but not the way the firm itself was showing up. And I had to start treating the firm like it was totally different than everything else we did. This is funny. It sounds so corny, but it helps. We started calling the firm the baby. The baby has to be taken care of, and once I started thinking of it as a separate entity that had needed its own nurturing, needed its own attention. Things changed dramatically. You know, we’re at this point, end of 2025, 20 times in revenue of what we were when I couldn’t pay make payroll, yeah. And it stepped back and got intentional about what we were building,
Steve Fretzin [11:58]
yeah. So you’re not doing everything yourself. You’re not going along with the status quo. You mentioned earlier. You became a real student of the game of growth and scaling and all of that. So then, when you think about a law firm that recognizes similar challenges, what’s the first thing they should do once they realize, yes, I am doing every too much myself. I’m overloaded, overwhelmed, right? The managing partners, the be all, end all of it, and running a business, and then on top of that, you know, as to manage and hire and work every case and like, has a hard time doing. All right, all of that’s happening. Someone said, I need to break out of this. What’s the first sort of step to getting healthy for the mind in the business?
Simone Fulmer Gaus [12:40]
Yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [12:40]
I am a structural thinker. I think in buckets. And that’s where I’d start, is I would, you know, you I, yes, I teach a framework. You don’t have to use mine, but, but think in buckets. And so for me, when I was doing it, this is people everything about supporting a team, everything about the people who come into that team, everything about what our mission is, all about, what our values all about. If it’s HR, I put it in that bucket, and then I have pipeline bucket. A lot of people talk about pipeline as marketing. I think of pipeline as much more than just getting someone to make the call. I think a pipeline is the experience and journey a client takes from the start of the case to the very end. So that’s a bucket. Anything that has to do with what moves that case along. Process is the how to you know, are we? Do we have processes for the way we’re doing things that goes in a bucket product, yeah. Product is Yeah. It helps my alliteration for the five pillars, but it also when you start thinking of the fact we are a service industry, and you can borrow principles from product development to really make the product. And when I mean product, I mean the lawyering, not the movement of the case. That’s pipeline. I mean everything it takes to create the best legal argument for your client, the best legal strategy for your client, the best experience for your client, that’s product. And finally, profitability. It’s everything to do with your money, not just what money is coming in the door, but what you’re going to do with that money as soon as it does so when you put a structure around things that already exist in your firm, you begin to get some clarity about where things might be off. You get some clarity about, hmm, you know, we need more processes, or this process doesn’t work. And so for the person who’s sitting in chaos, like where I lived, taking a moment step back and just give yourself a little time and energy to. Think about, where do all of this, where does all of this chaos, really live, and when you put it in a structure, I mean, it’s the immediate thing you can do to give you insight on what I need to do next.
Steve Fretzin [15:15]
Yeah, well, it’s like, you know, the thing about lawyers is, you know, they’re not taught business development, marketing and how to run a business in law school or at the law firm level, right? So then they have to become a student a game, and they read books, and they check out videos, and they do all these things that’s all important to do. Ultimately, though, what it comes down to, and I’ve interviewed hundreds and hundreds of rainmakers at this point, is systems. They don’t have systems. So you have a system that you’ve created that brings it to the five pillars and the 5p and all of that. How does a lawyer who goes every day is just a shotgun approach, it’s just winging it and hoping that the day ends Okay, and they’re just under fire the whole day. How do they change their mindset or change their structure so that they end up with a business that is run more like a business, less like a law firm.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [16:07]
I think it all comes down to time. Give yourself time you owe your business. And again, you’re thinking like me, I have a baby here. I need to take care of
Steve Fretzin [16:17]
Yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [16:18]
I have to give it time. I don’t know where it came from. When I was writing my book, I looked and I couldn’t find but the idea that you should set aside 10% of your work week to work on the business, not in it. You may know where it came from. I could not find it.
Steve Fretzin [16:33]
The E Myth is, I don’t know about 10% but the E Myth is the whole theme of that book is, work on your business, not in your business.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [16:40]
Exactly. I knew that part. But that 10%
Simone Fulmer Gaus [16:43]
is
Steve Fretzin [16:43]
that number comes from,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [16:45]
yeah, I learned it in a mastermind. So that’s in the book. I attribute it to the mastermind. Anyway, if four hours say you work 40 hours, and I know I’m being very not conservative. I mean, a lot of guys are working much more than
Simone Fulmer Gaus [17:00]
40
Steve Fretzin [17:00]
hours so thoughtfully to keep
Simone Fulmer Gaus [17:01]
Yeah, yeah. I wish you were, I wish that was happening for everybody. But let’s use 40 hours. It’s standard, and 10% of that is four hours. Four hours may sound I can’t do that. I can’t set aside four hours. I think about James clear and what he teaches, you know, just a little step, give yourself an hour, give yourself an hour for a month. What changes in that month? And as you begin to layer a habit, and you begin to really do that, you may turn into me, which is all I think about, is my business. I don’t handle cases anymore. I never would have dreamed that’s where I’d be sitting. But I work. I enjoy that. So I’m doing what I’m great at. If I wanted to just, not just if I wanted to be trying cases, still I’d be doing that. I’m doing what I want to do. But my point is, give yourself the gift of time. Give your baby or your business, whatever you want to call it, give it.
Steve Fretzin [18:08]
But the lawyer Simone that is saying they don’t have the four hours a week, right, is probably not doing something else that’s causing that. For example, they are they’re not delegating, they’re not automating. They’re not leaving something behind that shouldn’t be their responsibility in the first place. And there’s your four hours. So I’m always talking to lawyers that seemingly are so busy a identifying like, what are your jobs? Like? How many hats are you wearing? What are
Simone Fulmer Gaus [18:37]
you doing?
Steve Fretzin [18:37]
The second thing is, have you tracked your day? Like, if you just take in a day and you do this with your with your billable hours, why not do it generally, just to see, like, what did I do all day today? And you know, I was spending, you know, two hours on a client that’s just a troubled client, well, that’s costing you more than the discounted billable rate that you gave them. Maybe this is a client that we need to release right into their own destiny, or maybe it’s that you’re you’re not delegating administrative tests. Maybe you haven’t figured out how to use AI to clear out your inbox or have an assistant help you. I’m using, for example, Jace AI, and I’m not going to say it’s the greatest thing yet since sliced bread. I still need to do some work on it, but I only have one arm right now. I had that rotator cuff surgery, so I I’m not able to type and work the way I normally do, so all of the emails that I’m using are being automatically crafted for me to 85 90% correctness through an AI tool that is saying I need to respond to Simone. She’s asking me some questions about this podcast and when it’s coming out, or whatever, and I don’t have to really answer that. I just have to review that the email was written, hit send, and I’m out like, that’s saving me an hour a day. Auto scheduler saved me an hour a day. Well, there’s two hours right there that I can focus on, you know, doing other things.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [19:53]
Yeah, yeah. So if you take my suggestion, which is, give yourself the gift of a time,
Steve Fretzin [19:59]
yeah.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [20:00]
And then you take Steve’s suggestion and really start to look, and I use it may be Eos, it may be strategic coach, the idea of automate, delegate, eliminate, yeah, because you know you can automate so much of what you could do, you can delegate so much of what you do, and you can definitely, whether you believe it or not, eliminate a whole lot of those hats you’re wearing. You just don’t need to be doing it.
Steve Fretzin [20:28]
No, no. And again, this is, you know, the perfectionist attorney, and then the attorney that does everything, and only I can do it. The first thing I did when I started my business in 2004 was right away, as soon as I started getting checks in the door,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [20:42]
yeah,
Steve Fretzin [20:42]
was hire a bookkeeper. So why did I do that? Is it because I wanted to, you know, not, you know, just not look at my books and ignore the money and the cash. No, of course, I’m not going to do that. But I knew right away that that was a particular aspect of the business that I wasn’t going to enjoy, and where math, math and numbers and accounting are not really my thing. You can look at my grades in junior high and high school and college to know that. So right off the bat, you know, as I started building the business, invoicing and credit card, you know, segmenting and all the things that, you know, sending out notices for invoices do in AR collecting how many lawyers are doing that? And they just shouldn’t be. That’s just one of dozens of different tasks that need to be set up. So it’s just you can’t be successful without letting go.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [21:30]
I love that you can’t, and surrounding yourself with great people is the, you know, way to get there. But I still think you know it’s it’s a matter of being aware of what the problem is and what is your biggest problem.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [21:47]
Yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [21:47]
and it just takes intention to get there.
Steve Fretzin [21:51]
So let me ask you this. Were many cases holding things together on a very thin string with employees and cases and clients and operations and marketing and all these things. And I want to get your take specifically on employment, because I feel like for me and for a lot of the attorneys I work with, it’s people problems, and in particular, it’s hiring, recruiting, retaining people. How are you set up to provide some advice for people on best practices, either to hire retain like, how do you find good talent and retain
Simone Fulmer Gaus [22:27]
it? I will say, when I first started, I stole people. You know, I’d see someone that I and that sounds terrible, but
Steve Fretzin [22:34]
Well, I don’t.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [22:34]
I saw talent.
Steve Fretzin [22:35]
It’s kind of the best way to get the best people, right? I mean, someone’s been unemployed for three years and someone that’s been super successful working at a high level, what do you want in your you know your shop
Simone Fulmer Gaus [22:46]
exactly, but as time went on, I learned some things. One, don’t hire friends or family, if you can help it.
Steve Fretzin [22:55]
Yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [22:55]
I think it hurts relationships. But we follow a hiring funnel, and everything we do is focused on our values. And is this person? They may look great on paper, but not fit our values or what we find to be important. And when you start building around your value, and you start building around, does this person live their life in the same not live their life, do their work and live their work like we do. And so we put in our advertisements for the position, our our core values, and ask to receive a letter from the person, when they’re applying, to say how they have lived those values out in some past job, or whatever. Those letters are so interesting and helpful because it means that someone’s thoughtful enough to think about what’s important to us and then how they have lived that out. If they don’t send us that letter. They don’t even get to me. Like I said, there’s a funnel here. The first people they talk to aren’t even lawyers. I kind of flattened out a hierarchy. And so I have other people who do that, and they get to me. If those people, based on everything they know about the firm and who we are, think this might be a great fit. And so when they finally meet with me, we’re really talking about how we could operate together. And you know, it takes a little bit longer, but I will tell you, when I have not done it that way, I don’t have employees stick.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [24:38]
Yeah,
Simone Fulmer Gaus [24:39]
when I have done it that way. I’ve done very well. I’ve we’ve not hired a new person in a year, and that person was replacing my daughter. Like I said, don’t hire family. But you know, and I have folks who’ve been with me from the very beginning, and I think what ties us all together is we share this common belief. Leaf about how we should treat our clients. We share a common belief about how we want to show up for one another, and it’s just an intentional way to hire help a plus player. You can go look for every A plus player you want, but I’ve hired a plus players who wanted nothing to do with the way we work together. Yeah, and they don’t last.
Steve Fretzin [25:22]
I love it. I love it, all right. Well, let’s wrap things up with our favorite segment of the podcast, which is what’s Simone’s big mistake.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [25:30]
Oh, Lord, many
Steve Fretzin [25:32]
I was gonna say, but keep it to one.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [25:34]
Keep it to one. I think, since we’re talking business, I will just say my biggest mistake, with regard to my business, was starting it by replicating what I’d seen done before. There’s a reason I left that, and yet I was replicating it.
Steve Fretzin [25:51]
That’s so interesting. Yeah, yeah.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [25:53]
And without knowing it, and I think that when you’re replicating chaos, it’s you know, you’re always going to be in chaos. And the same unhappiness that overshadowed me was still overshadowing me. I was still away from home, I was still not being the mom I wanted to be. And when I realized that I needed structure, that I needed a foundation to build on, everything changed, and we run nothing like the traditional model I started with,
Steve Fretzin [26:27]
yeah, amazing. Amazing. I love it. Let’s take a moment thank our incredible sponsors, lawyer.com Lex, reception, rankings, io and pimcon also want to mention the be that lawyer community available if you go to be that lawyer.com/community, this is our new online platform if you’re a hungry business developer for I don’t know if it’s 699, or 899. A year is all it is. And then you have access to our content, you have access to courses, you have access to live events and to network with top rainmakers from around the world and ask questions and get feedback. It takes a community, folks. It takes a village, as they say, so check that out on our website. If you have any questions, you can always email me. Steve@fretzin.com Simone. People want to get in touch with you. They want to learn more about setup and everything you’re doing. What are the best ways for them to reach you?
Simone Fulmer Gaus [27:17]
The best way is go to my website, www, the set, hyphen up the setup.co, and the books available at any online retailer.
Steve Fretzin [27:30]
Awesome. Well, thank you so much. This is, this is, you know, look, not everyone that’s listening is in a position to scale a business, but I think a lot of them, you know, whether they’re in a firm or they’re on their own, have things they can take away from this conversation to figure out, like, hey, there’s a lot of moving parts here, and I’ve got to get organized with how I look at this as a business, think of it as a baby, and make important and intelligent decisions so that I don’t, you know, repeat bad mistakes of others before me, like emulating a bad model, like you shared, like,
Steve Fretzin [28:05]
what we know, we follow up. President, that’s what we do. Oh,
Steve Fretzin [28:08]
yeah, unfortunately, right, yeah. Well, thank you so much for being a guest. I’m so happy that we were able to get this together, and I’d love to just keep in the loop with you.
Simone Fulmer Gaus [28:16]
Yeah? Thank you very much. And again, happy birthday.
Steve Fretzin [28:19]
Thank you. Thank you. All right, everybody, the Big Five, six, I’m over the over the hump to 100 and change. I guess for me, it’s not about living forever. It’s just about living the greatest life I can live while I’m here and while I can enjoy it. So this podcast gives me great pleasure, my love, bringing you great experts and rainmakers to hear from and producing great content for you the legal community, and I’m just blessed. So thank you everybody for hanging out with us and helping you to be that lawyer, confident, organized and that skilled Rainmaker, take care, safe and well, we’ll talk again soon.
Narrator [28:56]
Thanks for listening to be that loyal, life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website, Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends for more information and important links about today’s episode. Check out today’s show notes.
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