David Telisman: Leveraging AI and Content Marketing for a Future-Ready Law Practice

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and David Telisman discuss:

• The role of content in business growth
• Challenges professionals face in content creation
• AI’s impact on marketing strategies
• Delegating marketing efforts effectively

Key Takeaways:

• Blogging remains the second most effective form of content marketing after video, but many attorneys fail to utilize it consistently, missing out on a powerful tool for brand visibility and client engagement.
• Repurposing content, such as turning podcasts into articles or short videos, allows businesses to maximize their exposure across multiple platforms without constantly creating new material, which saves time and effort.
• AI, like ChatGPT, has revolutionized content marketing by helping professionals organize and optimize their content creation processes, but it must be carefully monitored to avoid factual errors and ensure originality.
• A common issue for small business owners is the discrepancy between their in-person presence and their online branding, which often leads to a lack of trust or missed connections with potential clients.

“As a practitioner, I could smell rubber-stamped AI that hasn’t gotten through QC from a mile away. I mean, it’s just used to the format, the formula of the words.” —  David Telisman

Read Steve’s past episodes as Blogcasts—visit now: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/

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Episode References: 

Club Random with Bill Maher: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/club-random-with-bill-maher/id1613459129

About David Telisman: David Telisman is the founder of David Telisman Communications, LLC, a leading content writing and marketing company. With 26 years of experience in writing, marketing communications, and education, David partners with businesses across various industries to create powerful content that drives customer engagement and boosts sales. David’s strategic content creation helps brands stand out, elevate their reputation, and achieve sustained growth in competitive markets.

Connect with David Telisman:  

Website: https://davidtelisman.com/

Email: david.telisman@gmail.com

Phone: 224-645-2748

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidtelisman/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/david.telisman & https://www.facebook.com/davidtelismancommunications/

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Twitter: @stevefretzin

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Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

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Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Steve Fretzin: Hey listeners, I know you’re getting a ton of amazing tips from our expert guests here on the show, but keeping track of them can be a challenge. I know that. That’s why I’ve created Blogcasts, the perfect way to capture the best insights from every episode. Each Blogcast condenses an entire show into a two page summary packed with key takeaways that you can apply right away.

[00:00:21] Steve Fretzin: Head over to Fretzin. com slash blog to start reading, learning, and taking action. Let these blog casts help you on your journey to be that lawyer with Fretzin. Now, enjoy the show.

[00:00:35] Narrator: You’re listening to Be That Lawyer. Life changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach, Steve Fretzin, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now, here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

[00:00:57] Steve Fretzin: Hey, everybody. It’s Steve Fretzin. Welcome back. To the, be that lawyer with Fretzin podcast. We are here for your amusement, entertainment, and education on everything legal, business development, marketing, wellness, content creation. You name it. We’ve got it. 430 plus shows that we’ve done in just under five years.

[00:01:16] Steve Fretzin: And we are continuing to. Bring you great guests and I’ve got one for you today. No surprise. David, how’s it going, man? 

[00:01:23] David Telisman: Doing well. How are you? I guess I have to entertain, right? Yeah, you 

[00:01:26] Steve Fretzin: better be entertaining or I’m going to just like hit mute and just talk through you the whole time because I’m entertaining.

[00:01:31] Steve Fretzin: No, but no, we want to have some fun with this, right? Just like we do in real life. 

[00:01:35] David Telisman: Definitely. 

[00:01:36] Steve Fretzin: You listen to podcasts, you know, it’s like, you know, there’s, you know, there’s people that just, you know, drive you to tears with boredom and there’s people that have great conversations that you just want to hear what they’re going to, what are they going to say next?

[00:01:47] David Telisman: Right. And no dead air. I’m not going to 

[00:01:50] Steve Fretzin: take it. No dead air. And then let’s pause for five seconds. Give dead air. No, I think sometimes a pause is okay. I’m not, I’m not afraid of a little silence. They say also like in a successful marriage, it’s okay just to be quiet. Together sometimes I don’t need to work 

[00:02:04] David Telisman: on that, 

[00:02:06] Steve Fretzin: you know, there are people that try to fill like the mic.

[00:02:09] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I’m not going to say my mother in law. We’ll say someone that I’m related to, not my mother in law that like fills, you know, fills the space. And then that’s fine. But it’s like, you know, we, it’s okay just to chew and to be quiet. And 

[00:02:23] David Telisman: there’s famous song. Enjoy the silence. 

[00:02:25] Steve Fretzin: Enjoy the silence. Exactly.

[00:02:26] Steve Fretzin: Exactly. So listen, man, I want to start off as I, as I love to do with the quota show. Now you’ve got one of the most unique quotes because it’s something I’d heard before. And your grandfather must’ve heard before. Cause it’s like an old joke, maybe from like the, like the Marx Brothers eras or something like that.

[00:02:45] Steve Fretzin: And it’s, I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy. And that’s something your grandfather used to say? 

[00:02:52] David Telisman: Yeah, so my grandfather was, he was real hard ass, tough love, but he was really funny too. And he had this, just this character side to him. And he would, he would call me big old Davey.

[00:03:05] David Telisman: And he would just have quotes or songs, and he would repeat them, and that’s one. And I, I know he didn’t coin it, but it seems like he did. You know, you know, Davey? 

[00:03:19] Steve Fretzin: I might be, that might be a look up situation too. Yes. If I was attributed to Dorothy Parker, I don’t even, who’s Dorothy Parker. 

[00:03:29] David Telisman: That’s who it is.

[00:03:31] David Telisman: I don’t know. We 

[00:03:33] Steve Fretzin: just know that it might be attributed to her. 

[00:03:36] David Telisman: Right. Right. 

[00:03:38] Steve Fretzin: Well, that might be a look it up situation, but it’s just a great quote because it’s funny. That’s, I mean, that’s, that’s like, that’s, is there something deeper than that or no? 

[00:03:46] David Telisman: No. 

[00:03:47] Steve Fretzin: No. It’s all on the surface. That’s it. His mother was all up here.

[00:03:51] Steve Fretzin: There’s nothing down there. Well, 

[00:03:53] David Telisman: yeah, maybe he had his own depth to it, but when he said it, I just laughed. 

[00:04:00] Steve Fretzin: But, like, I could see, like the Marx Brothers, like, doing a routine, or, like, the Three Stooges, or something, saying that type of a quote. Oh, 

[00:04:06] David Telisman: right. And then the bottle hitting people. Yeah, well, right.

[00:04:09] David Telisman: And 

[00:04:09] Steve Fretzin: then a bottle hit the head. Right. What’s funny my late great father larry the lawyer used to give me a hard time when i was a teenager for watching like animated cartoons and stuff like that which by the way of become like a big deal now right there making. Major motion pictures that are animated and used to call me a dummy and what am i an idiot what am i baby.

[00:04:28] Steve Fretzin: His favorite show was the three stooges and you know i did love the three stooges growing up but i have to tell you there’s nothing dumber than the three stooges there’s nothing dumb. Maybe the movie dumb and dumber might be dumber than the three stooges. 

[00:04:42] David Telisman: Right, right. But you know, since it was live action, not animated, there you go.

[00:04:46] Steve Fretzin: No, I guess he was a bit surer than me because it was, it was in person or real people. David Tellesman, you’re the president of David Tellesman Communications, and you and I are in a provisors group together here in the Chicagoland area. You are the master of all content. And so I wanted you to come on the show and really talk about You know, the things you do, but more importantly, educate us on the importance of content.

[00:05:09] Steve Fretzin: I, I’m a huge, huge fan of, of content creation. I’m doing it all the time. Doing it right now. Just talking to you, but give us a little background, how you came to be and why content was kind of your jam. 

[00:05:19] David Telisman: Sure. So my background is in professional writing. I started off as a journalist. Then I actually taught high school English for two years, taught writing, taught literature, and then transitioned into corporate communications.

[00:05:32] David Telisman: And when I was in that space, I wrote business proposals. I created an internal external marketing and learned a lot about many different industries and wrote to many different industry audiences. And I got to a point, it was almost eight years ago, where I had come to Jesus moment. I wasn’t happy where I was working and I needed to figure out what I was going to do with the rest of my life.

[00:06:00] David Telisman: And I came very close to go back, going back into education, teaching, which was a terrific experience. But I knew that if I didn’t kind of take the road of Most resistance and give myself permission to be an entrepreneur. I would regret it. Yeah, and I figured I know how to write I need to learn how to sell I know what content is and why it’s important and I started to Really get involved with the small business community and realize, Hey, there’s a huge need here for, for these businesses to market themselves.

[00:06:41] Steve Fretzin: And so then so then, yeah. What’s so like, what, what’s the makeup of your business? Like how, like, what’s the make model shape of, of companies that you work with? 

[00:06:50] David Telisman: Right. So small businesses, midsize, large businesses. Mainly small businesses. Cause those are the circles I run in different entities. I have a niche in the mental health care space.

[00:07:03] David Telisman: That’s a personal passion of mine is mental health awareness and advocacy. And a business owner will come to me because they have a website that isn’t working for them that hasn’t been nurtured with new content, like blogs and articles, case studies. They’ve tried the DIY marketing approach, which we know doesn’t work because they have a business to run and they’ll do that at the expense of business development and they’re very stretched thin, right?

[00:07:37] David Telisman: They have to do their own networking and they’ll be at an event and I mean, you’ve probably experienced this where you meet someone at whatever networking event and they do a very good job communicating what they do and their value proposition. Then when you look at them online, you realize there’s this chasm between their in-person brand and their online brand.

[00:07:59] David Telisman: And that’s where we come in is we really bridge that. 

[00:08:02] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, you know, you know what I noticed people that do terribly in networking to brand themselves and then also are terrible at branding themselves online. How about that? 

[00:08:11] David Telisman: Yeah, , 

[00:08:13] Steve Fretzin: I see. I probably see more of that than I see what you said, but. 

[00:08:16] David Telisman: That’s when they could use a coach.

[00:08:17] Steve Fretzin: Well, that’s why you and I are talking, that’s why we’re doing this. We’re trying to help people who are great at what they do, but they don’t convey that. I mean, maybe that’s a great lead into why do you think professionals struggle to convey their message or to put out content or to put themselves out in front?

[00:08:37] Steve Fretzin: Is that, what’s going on in their mindset? Well, 

[00:08:40] David Telisman: a lot of the time, they’re just in it. They’re too close to it. To understand how someone on the outside would, would want to be educated on what they do, right? And they also don’t know what, what they don’t know. I often say that the, the commonality between a business that lags in marketing and one that excels in it is that they could both do better.

[00:09:09] David Telisman: But, you know, again, the people I work with are those who, they understand the value of marketing. But they don’t know the what they don’t know the tactics. They don’t the strategy. 

[00:09:18] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I would say it’s it’s probably 60% Or time management or or overworking within their space and obviously this shows for lawyers so lawyers know, you know, the bell will hour in the rat race and the hamster wheel that they’re on and how difficult it is to do marketing and business development when you’re on the wheel.

[00:09:38] Steve Fretzin: And then the second part is to your point, you know what they don’t know and they know they can present somewhere. They know they can attend a conference. They know they can publish an article getting it done and getting it in how they leverage that content. Is is the beast, I think, 

[00:09:54] David Telisman: right? And also they are the business owner.

[00:09:56] David Telisman: They’re the subject matter expert. And so there’s always that issue of letting go of control, right? I mean, as business owners, it’s keen to know how to leverage resources, ask for help and take that help and receive it. 

[00:10:14] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, perfect. I think perfectionism plays a role. I think procrastination plays a role.

[00:10:19] Steve Fretzin: It’s like, I’ll get to it round to it. So when I used to have a guy who, who would talk about procrastination, he had these little, these little round coins that said to it, it was around to it. He used to throw them at us, say, this is, you know, this is you telling me you’re going to get around to it. It was a kitschy little thing he did.

[00:10:34] Steve Fretzin: But, but ultimately, you know, some things, you know, Probably need to be done, you know, by the individual lawyer looking to market and brand and then there’s a lot that can be delegated. I think we’re going to come back to that in a few minutes. But what, what, what’s your opinion that on the most important forms of content marketing, there’s a lot of different directions that a lawyer or law firm could go.

[00:10:57] Steve Fretzin: And do you have any any way of sort of ferreting it down to like what might work best? 

[00:11:02] David Telisman: Sure. And I work with attorneys. I’ve worked with some different firms. And. As a writer, I’m always gonna highlight written content, but although, yeah, I will give recognition to video. It is the number one form of content marketing, but blogging is number two and has remained so for several years.

[00:11:20] David Telisman: And the, you know, with, with attorneys, I find is that they are not, they don’t have a blog necessarily, they don’t have a newsletter, they’re not active on social media and those clients who I work with. We’re, we’re writing two to four original blog posts every month, and we’re not just publishing, right?

[00:11:43] David Telisman: We need to make sure that we’re, we’re reaching every number of the relevant audience. So we’re, we’re marketing it on social and their LinkedIn, on their Facebook, wherever they are. And we’re sending the the email campaign out for each one so that we’re also hitting all of their contacts and their email.

[00:12:01] David Telisman: And, you know, it, when it works, which often does. You could be, I say you could be in more place. You could be, you could be in many places at once. You could be at your provisor’s meeting, but you could also be networking in the cloud, right, online, because your content is being shared and it’s being circulated.

[00:12:23] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Is it, is it better to focus on blogging your content on your website or Like I do that, but I also write for above the law, which is a pretty large legal online publication. So I’m not getting like the SEO and the stuff that would happen if it was on my blog, on my website, but I’m getting the attraction of people that, you know, especially in the small firm realm that might see my articles, read it and want to connect with me.

[00:12:52] Steve Fretzin: Do you have opinions about the, like the PR value versus the. That the self publishing value of an hour of a blog or an article. 

[00:12:59] David Telisman: Well, it all comes down to our people contacting you, right? So when you’re writing for a publication and you’re seeing traction, there you go. When it comes to SEO, you always want to be driving traffic to your website, right?

[00:13:15] David Telisman: Which is why you know, some people might have a separate blog website, which that doesn’t always work, or they might make the mistake of, you know, Putting the entire text of their blog post on LinkedIn, but then you’re not giving them a reason to click on the link and go to your website and more traffic you generate, the more visible you are in the search engines.

[00:13:40] Steve Fretzin: And what about I mean, so we mentioned blogs, we mentioned video being important. Do you want to take just another minute on video? 

[00:13:47] David Telisman: Sure. Video is, it’s pretty ubiquitous and it could be applied through just about every channel imaginable. We’re talking social media, so I, you could post written content too, but People are drawing the video, short video, like short, short video, if you’ve seen the YouTube shorts and it, you know, people process information differently.

[00:14:18] David Telisman: You have readers and you have people who will see a video and in that short amount of time, if it’s produced well, they’ll understand who you are, what you do and why you should work with this person or be interested. And what they do. 

[00:14:34] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. With proven SEO and digital marketing strategies that drive actual clients to your firm, Rankings.

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[00:15:05] Steve Fretzin: Well, I tell them this is a special place created exclusively for rainmaking lawyers to continue their journey of prosperity. Our program is unique as every member has a significant book of business and is motivated to grow it year after year. Where else does this exist? If you’re a managing partner who’s looking to get off your lonely island and talk shop, with America’s top rate makers, please go to my website, Fretzin.

[00:15:28] Steve Fretzin: com and apply for membership today. And obviously I’m a huge fan of podcasting and I’ve probably helped a dozen other professionals in legal and out of legal get into podcasts. And From a standpoint of, of that content, any, any thoughts about that and how that can be leveraged? 

[00:15:47] David Telisman: Right. And I, you could definitely speak to it too.

[00:15:49] David Telisman: The more content that you’re creating, as long as it’s good, the better podcasts have just really grown in popularity. And what’s interesting is, and this is kind of a juxtaposition, I was just talking about video, short video with podcasts, the longer form podcasts. Are tend to be the ones that people are most engaged in.

[00:16:16] David Telisman: So, you know, you might want to expand your, your podcast to like three hours. I have all day. 

[00:16:22] Steve Fretzin: Okay. Yeah. I’m going to, I’m going to go ahead and say no to that. 

[00:16:26] David Telisman: But also 

[00:16:27] Steve Fretzin: I used to listen to three hour podcasts, like Joe Rogan and all that. And I completely gave up on long podcasts because I was having to listen to them over like a week.

[00:16:37] Steve Fretzin: And I just kind of was in and out and in and out and in and out. And I was like, you know what? 30, 45 minutes is now kind of my jam. 

[00:16:44] David Telisman: Or just drive to Chicago and you could listen to 10 of them. 

[00:16:47] Steve Fretzin: Well, right. The traffic you could, you could spend the whole day in the car. But I think, you know, there’s video content that will be created of you and I doing this podcast.

[00:16:56] Steve Fretzin: There’s a transcript that can be, you know, tailored down into an article that can be used as a blog. Okay. Or a post there can be shorts, short videos created. There can be an audio if we want to, obviously there’s the audio podcast, but there could also be like highlight clips of audio if we wanted to do that.

[00:17:13] Steve Fretzin: So I think there’s just a lot of different ways to leverage or to, to create content. We’ve talked about a number of them. The problem is I think it’s how to do it effectively. Can you speak to what you’re doing for your clients and how that’s helping them to be effective to not only get their brand built, but let’s even drive it into like ROI and how does it get them business?

[00:17:33] David Telisman: Sure. And you just mentioned something that’s really critical is the repurposing of content, right? The example of your podcast where you have the transcript, you have the video. That’s really important too. So with my clients. Where their audience find the most value and benefit is being educated by the blog sector reading or the client success stories or the newsletters or, or whatever, and having when, when they read something, the goal is they feel smarter because of it, right?

[00:18:10] David Telisman: There’s these takeaways. And so with my attorney clients, for example if their audience is the consumer, what we’ve found you know, we see lots of positive outcomes. And as far as the RMI goes, definitely more impressions online, more views, more shares, high open rates, click through rates, and, and then there’s conversion.

[00:18:38] David Telisman: There’s lead generation. My clients have, they’ve told me because of this blog posts. Someone reached out and I signed them or I was referred because of that. And that’s, that’s the best ROI, right? Is someone, someone wins business and it’s a, it’s great ROI because a new client is a lot more, it’s a lot more money than what I’m charging them.

[00:19:09] Steve Fretzin: Well, the other thing is I think we have to understand with marketing that it’s, it’s a, it’s a marathon, not a sprint. You might get a sprint outcome of a new piece of business, but like I wrote for the Chicago Daily Law Bulletin here in Chicago for, Eight years. Can I tell you I got a ton of business from it?

[00:19:25] Steve Fretzin: The answer is no. However, you take that in conjunction with a podcast, in conjunction with you, my YouTube channel, Steve Fretzin on YouTube, everybody. You take that in conjunction with, you know, my social media presence, and it all adds up. It’s like, it’s like people are seeing me every, and they’re like, oh, Steve, I’m seeing you everywhere.

[00:19:44] Steve Fretzin: Well it’s, I, yeah, cause I’m, I’m going for that, right, but I, but I can’t, sometimes you’ll know that it’s from a certain particular blog or a particular thing, but in most cases it’s, it’s, it’s like five or six touches that happen for someone to eventually make a call and they may not say that it’s from reading an article on, in the bulletin, it might be from, they say, I just, you know, I got you on your website, but the fact that they saw you three, four, five times before that may not come up.

[00:20:11] David Telisman: Right. And what you’re seeing are the fruits of your content marketing labor. And one of the best fruits is being top of mind. And so I’m sure lawyers 

[00:20:24] Steve Fretzin: in particular, that’s pretty, pretty critical. 

[00:20:27] David Telisman: Exactly. 

[00:20:28] Steve Fretzin: And so the last thing I want to kind of talk about is we, you know, we’ve got a few minutes left is around content, but, but the leveraging of AI.

[00:20:36] Steve Fretzin: And I think there’s a lot of lawyers who. And for good reason are hesitant to, you know, take a dive into AI. I think there are some safe ways to play it. And marketing is one of those places where I think it’s pretty safe as opposed to. You know, altering contracts or doing things that, you know, ultimately, you know, could get a lawyer into trouble.

[00:20:55] Steve Fretzin: I think marketing is, is a, is a good way to start into AI. Can you talk a little bit about how AI is changing content creation and making it easier and better for people? 

[00:21:06] David Telisman: It is changing exponentially, meteorically, you know what I mean? When cheat and T launched in 22 and then released. grew in popularity beginning in 23.

[00:21:23] David Telisman: It was such a game changer. I mean, we’ve always known, I mean, AI has been around since the 1950s, but I think really until at least for a writer until chat GPT hit the scene, it was always running in the background, right? Algorithms, this, that, and now it’s just, it’s so turnkey and it’s incredibly powerful.

[00:21:43] David Telisman: It can do a lot. It does scare me at times. It is a great way. It’s a great time saver, right? It’s in. It’s a great way to help you synthesize the raw materials of content. Now, using it safely is important, right? I mean, you have to know how to be a responsible user of it. You can’t Rubber stamp, anything it creates, it plagiarizes, it tends to go off track.

[00:22:11] David Telisman: It does this thing called the hallucination of facts where it, it will just create. Totally fabricated information. And when it, you know, when it comes to attorneys, I mean, I would suppose they have to be especially careful. Obviously you can’t put any sensitive information in there. Yeah, you know, I would, I would think when it comes to briefs and things like that, I don’t know that AI would be the right tool to use, but when I work with attorneys, and if I’m leveraging AI for content, again, I mean, I’m creating the original content and I may use it for the organization of that content or for some structure.

[00:22:55] David Telisman: Or help me with some key words, but you have to know how to use it. And as, as a practitioner, I could smell rubber stamped AI that hasn’t gotten through QC from a mile away. I mean, it’s just used to the format, the formula, the words. 

[00:23:12] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I like the way it cleans things up. So let’s say I come up with a title for a presentation that I want to do, okay?

[00:23:20] Steve Fretzin: And I’ll put that in I’ll say hey, you know make this better That could be that simple and it’ll make it better where I could say, you know Just it’s all about the prompts, you know, like putting in you know, this is specifically for attorneys Solos and small firm on the topic of business development You And, and I wanted, I wanted to have some, you know, have a real punch to it and then it’ll pop up a title and be like, damn, that’s so much better than what I came up with.

[00:23:45] Steve Fretzin: And I think that’s what we’re really looking for is, is a way to a, either get people some content that they can put up on social just to have some content up there that might, you know, might be good enough or maybe to, to, to start writing something and just, just clean it up enough where. It could be an article that you, you have some outline on, but.

[00:24:05] Steve Fretzin: You know, you plug it in next thing, you know, you’ve got a two page article in 15 minutes. 

[00:24:09] David Telisman: Right. And as a lot quicker than that you mentioned, you mentioned the prompts and the prompts are important, but what’s remarkable about these about chat GPT and co pilot and Gemini, the others is that after you give it a few prompts, you don’t have to remind it because it learns your style and it it’s constantly updating its memory.

[00:24:34] David Telisman: Okay. Where you can just give it rather than two or three sentences, you could give it a one word command and it will, it will give you the output you need based on it’s learning and it’s memory. 

[00:24:46] Steve Fretzin: So if I have to do, like, let’s say five transcripts of this podcast into articles, I could do it once and then in the second time just say do that again?

[00:24:57] David Telisman: Yeah. 

[00:24:58] Steve Fretzin: Yeah? 

[00:24:59] David Telisman: Okay. And you gotta play with it too. Yeah. Right. It might take a few prompts, but I would start there. 

[00:25:05] Steve Fretzin: Any advantage of the paid over the free versions? 

[00:25:08] David Telisman: Right. So I could speak mainly to ChatGPT, the, yeah, there’s, there’s certainly advantages and they are, it’s faster, the quality is better.

[00:25:20] David Telisman: And what I mean by that is the the accuracy of the contents and. With the free versions, you have limitations on, on data, right? You could only get, or you can only give X amount of prompts per hour. And you also have worked out in character limits, the pay versions there, there really aren’t those limits and everything’s just more efficient, but I would tell people who haven’t dabbled yet to start with the free version, cause it could probably meet their needs.

[00:25:55] Steve Fretzin: Let’s wrap up with, with kind of a final thought on this. I mean, I think business development and marketing, there’s a, there’s a, a cost to be paid today, time, money, energy to, to do it. But if, but it’s like the longer you wait, the harder it’s going to be to do it. And the more time you’ve sort of lost and time is the one thing.

[00:26:17] Steve Fretzin: You don’t want to lose you can’t get it back so i feel like i started this podcast even though it was five years ago five years later that i wanted to i’m i’m dealing with that but it turned out okay but people that don’t want to get involved in marketing they don’t want to post they don’t want to do anything like that and they wait and it’s like you’re either a part of the game you’re in the game or you’re not in the game and the people that are in the game.

[00:26:39] Steve Fretzin: Are going to be that much further ahead of you in five years, thoughts, commentary on, on that type of kind of of that kind of situation. 

[00:26:46] David Telisman: Yeah. Don’t be a dinosaur. 

[00:26:48] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Okay. That’s fair enough. 

[00:26:51] David Telisman: Right. As long as you are working with someone who knows what they’re doing, you, you can’t market enough, right?

[00:27:01] Steve Fretzin: Or become a store, become a student of the game. I mean, you can read books on marketing, you can read books on networking, you can read books on how to do a podcast, there’s YouTube videos, like there are DIY ways to get things done. Is it better to hire someone to produce my podcast, like turnkey podcast?

[00:27:19] Steve Fretzin: Hell yeah, I don’t want to do this stuff and they’re very good at it. Why don’t I focus on the interviews and let them focus on editing and production? So like there’s that side of that doesn’t mean I don’t know anything about podcasting. I still want to be educated enough to know What’s what? Sure, I think delegation finding good people in your corner and Delegating to experts and delegating people who it’s their jam like you do.

[00:27:43] Steve Fretzin: I think that’s wise 

[00:27:46] David Telisman: I could not agree more. 

[00:27:47] Steve Fretzin: Right. I didn’t think you’d argue with me on that for some trouble. No. All right, so let’s wrap up with game changing podcast. I’m a big Bill Maher fan, and I, I haven’t listened to his podcast yet. It’s called Club Random. Yeah. And well, what do they, do they just talk politics on there, or what do they talk about?

[00:28:02] David Telisman: No, it’s so, 

[00:28:04] Steve Fretzin: maybe it’s random. It’s, he’s got this 

[00:28:06] David Telisman: cool setup in his house’s. Kind of like, like a smoker’s lounge, go figure. He’s a, you know, big pothead. And compared to his show real time, he’s there like an hour long and he has. Celebrity on and they are talking like they would if the cameras weren’t on them.

[00:28:28] David Telisman: And, you know, Bill is always smoking a joint and he drinks a little tequila. And of course, his guests are invited to imbibe as well. 

[00:28:37] Steve Fretzin: Yeah, 

[00:28:38] David Telisman: they, there’s no agenda. They, it’s just very organic and Bill’s very smart and he lets you know it. And he’s got that strong personality, smug. Good. It turns a lot of people off, but he, he really knows how to interview his guests.

[00:28:56] David Telisman: He’ll challenge them. And each podcast also has a video to it. We’re talking about video, right? I think it’s, I think it’s intelligent, introspective and yeah, check it out. 

[00:29:11] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. I will check that out. Thank you. Listen, everybody, as we wrap, I want to thank our sponsors, of course, rankings IO. They get you more than rankings.

[00:29:19] Steve Fretzin: They get you cases check them out. And of course our Rainmakers round table. This is, this is what I’m running with top Rainmakers and managing partner partners who are growth oriented all over the country. If that’s you or someone that you know that you think would want to be in a room with other successful Rainmakers talking shop and learning from each other and sharing problems and solutions and all that, just email me at steve at Fretzin.

[00:29:42] Steve Fretzin: com or you can contact me through my website, Fretzin. com. David, people want to reach out to you, they want to say, hey, you know what, I’m going to have this, Brilliant guy, take over my marketing and really help us get to the next level. How do they reach you? 

[00:29:55] David Telisman: Go to my website, davidtelesman. com, email me at david at davidtelesman.

[00:30:02] David Telisman: com, call me 224 645 2748, I’m on LinkedIn, I’m on Facebook, I’m on YouTube. You’re everywhere. I’m everywhere. 

[00:30:14] Steve Fretzin: All right. Very good. Well, thanks man. Thanks for coming on the show and having this conversation. I think You know, content management, marketing is so critical today, and it’s very hard to be successful on social media.

[00:30:25] Steve Fretzin: If that’s one of your goals, if you don’t have content. So again, I have tons of content and people think I’m spending all this time posting and do it. Yeah, it’s my content, but I have someone working for me that does this for me. So it’s not something you just have to, you know, suffer in silence on your own.

[00:30:41] Steve Fretzin: There’s places to delegate and people who can handle that type of thing. Thank you, David, for coming on and sharing your wisdom, man. I appreciate it. And we’re going to see you soon at a, at a provisors meeting. Shout out to provisors. 

[00:30:52] David Telisman: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This was, this was fun. 

[00:30:55] Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. Good times, man.

[00:30:57] Steve Fretzin: And thank you everybody for spending time with Dave and I on the Be That Lawyer with Fretzin podcast every single week, twice a week bringing you good ideas and ways to grow your law practice and be that lawyer, confident, organized, and the skilled rainmaker. Take care, everybody. We’ll talk again soon.

[00:31:15] Narrator: Thanks for listening to be that lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Visit Steve’s website Fretzin for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.