Joe Jones: What It Takes to Shift from Lawyer to Founder

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Joe Jones discuss:

• The transition from traditional legal practice to entrepreneurship
• Strategies for evaluating and managing professional risk
• Tools and systems that support solo and startup legal ventures
• The mindset and preparation needed to pursue legal tech innovation

Key Takeaways:

• Successfully transitioning from law firm practice to a tech-driven startup can be less daunting when done gradually, by maintaining income and slowly validating the new concept before fully stepping away.
• Fear of entrepreneurial failure can be reduced by building out clear backup plans—even unconventional ones—to provide psychological safety and optionality during uncertain times.
• Implementing automated scheduling systems and encouraging clients to use them can significantly reduce administrative burden, lower phone interruptions, and create a more organized and prepared client experience.
• New product ideas should be tested not by pitching, but by asking target users how they currently solve the problem, which leads to more honest feedback and uncovers existing competitors or gaps in the market.

“There’s just so many tools out there that you can get that aren’t very expensive, that take a huge headache away from you.” —  Joe Jones
Unlock the secrets of the industry’s top rainmakers with Be That Lawyer: 101 Top Rainmakers’ Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice. Grab your ultimate guide to building a thriving law firm now on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F78HXJHT
Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/
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Episode References:

The Mom Test by Rob Fitzpatrick: https://www.amazon.com/Mom-Test-customers-business-everyone/dp/1492180742

About Joe Jones: Joe Jones is a board-certified personal injury trial lawyer, the Co-Founder and CEO of StreamSettle, and a U.S. Marine Corps veteran with a driving passion for resolving conflict. From his early days in his law school’s Mediation Clinic to serving as a Judge Advocate in the Marines, Joe has been helping people find solutions to their legal disputes.

After a successful run managing a Houston office for a top Texas personal injury firm and making partner, Joe’s entrepreneurial spirit led him to launch Joe Jones Law Firm. But he didn’t stop there. Seeing a need for innovation, he co-founded StreamSettle with his wife Chrysa—a software solution shaking up the dispute resolution world.

When he’s not working, Joe is all about family, cheering on Texas A&M and Houston sports teams, playing music, and hitting the slopes.

Connect with Joe Jones:

Website: https://streamsettle.com/

Email: jjones@streamsettle.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-jones-9802a3a/ & https://www.linkedin.com/company/streamsettle

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You’re the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00] Hey lawyers. Imagine it’s a year from now and your pipeline is full and your revenue has doubled. That journey starts on July 24th. Please join me for Be That Lawyer Live an event where you’re gonna meet some of the top rainmakers from my new book. Be That Lawyer 101 Top Rainmaker Secrets to Growing a Successful Law Practice, and we’re gonna give you advice and tips that you just can’t get anywhere else.

Go to Fretzin.com/events to register today. Your future self will. Thank you. I know it.

Narrator: You are listening to be that lawyer, life-changing strategies and resources for growing a successful law practice. Each episode, your host, author, and lawyer coach Steve Reson, will take a deeper dive helping you grow your law practice in less time with greater results. Now here’s your host, Steve Fretzin.

Steve Fretzin: Hey everybody. Welcome back. It is Steve Fretzin, and yes, you guessed. That this is the [00:01:00] Be That Lawyer podcast. We are here twice a week to help you be that lawyer, confident, organized, in a skilled rainmaker. And boy oh boy, I love this show and I love interviewing and meeting new people and great people.

And Joe, I’m just really excited about the conversation today. It’s not a, it’s not one that we typically have on this show, so I’m really looking forward to talking about it. And I’m not gonna let people know what it is. I’m gonna keep ’em hanging. It’s called a nailbiter or a cliffhanger. But welcome to the show, man.

Joe Jones: Thanks Steve. Appreciate it. Glad to be here.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Yeah. And let’s jump in right away with our quote of the show is, A ship in the harbor is safe, but that’s not what ships are built for. So welcome to the show and tell us a little bit about why you’re giving me that John shed quote of the day.

Joe Jones: Yeah, I love this quote.

I think we all have our talents and our gifts that to use in life. And it’s easy sometimes to just sit in the mundane, in the routine and and just keep doing life that way. But it’s a lot of fun to get out and go on an adventure and take that ship out of the harbor and and, test those [00:02:00] talents and test those gifts and challenge yourself.

And so that’s a quote I look to. I really like it.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, and for those of you don’t know, the chat aquarium is in Chicago, so if you come to Chicago, that’s one of our tourist attractions, so you can hear the quote over and over in your head as you look at fish and maybe a couple sharks. Awesome, man.

Joe Jones great to have you. You are the CEO and Co-founder of Stream Settle, and give us a little bit of how you came to be, man. I’d love to have you share that with everybody.

Joe Jones: Yeah, so I started my legal career in the Marine Corps. I did, various roles, but most of my time was spent as a criminal defense attorney in the Marines.

Loved it. It was the, what an absolute great job for a new attorney. You get lots of trial experience and all that, so that was really good for me. I got out and got into the PI world. Went to work with a firm and ran their Houston office and then eventually after being with them for about six years, wanted to start my own firm and I got that itch and so I did that.

And then we started stream, settle. I had a [00:03:00] shower idea while I was working up a trucking case that I couldn’t ignore. So my wife and I co-founded Stream Settle, and that’s now my full-time gig. Referred all the cases out of our firm and that’s what we’re doing full-time.

Steve Fretzin: That’s it. And tell us what Streams Settle does.

Let’s just get that outta the way too.

Joe Jones: Yeah, so we’re a triple blind deal detector. We’re, we do what we call threshold testing. So typically, you get a big demand from the plaintiff’s side and a really insultingly low offer from the insurance side. The parties just conclude that they’re too far apart and then they spend a bunch of money and a bunch of time working up a case.

And then it ultimately settles, before trial. That’s the typical case timeline stream, settle before each cash burn phase. So before you file a lawsuit, before you do depos, we have the parties come in on stream, settle, put their true threshold number, not their exaggerated number, their threshold number, and if there’s an overlap.

So if the obligor’s number is at least as much as. The OBLIGEE number, we’ve got an overlap and we’ve got a binding settlement. If [00:04:00] not, nothing’s revealed. No fees are charged and the parties go on to that next phase of the case.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Really cool stuff. And I wanna start off, what was it like for you transitioning from working at a PI firm to starting your own?

What were your fears? What were your concerns? And ultimately, how did you get over the hump of making that happen?

Joe Jones: So I’m loyal to a fault, and one of my biggest things was just like, I felt terrible even wanting to leave. But I think as an entrepreneur, like by heart, I think I am, there’s that growing itch that just keeps developing.

And so eventually just had to be honest with my partners and talk to them about that. And luckily, I was, I had very understanding and gracious partners, and so we figured out a fair deal for me to part ways. And then, going into starting my own firm, there was a lot of things that I had been, taking for granted, being as with a firm, right?

So marketing and all the administrative stuff and payroll, [00:05:00] hr, all that good stuff. So those were like, I needed to learn that really quickly and was able to now, with just so much information being available, especially, now you’ve got AI and all that to help you too, but there’s so much information, there’s so many tools and resources out there to help you get going.

So yeah, we got going and it was great. Really loved being on my own and having that autonomy of my own firm

Steve Fretzin: was part of the ability for you to go out on your own. The fact that you had some cases to take with you that you had some revenue and you had some clients, so it wasn’t like you were just starting from nothing.

Like someone that leaves a general counsel role, starts their own shop and has to like literally start from nothing. You were not in that place. So it was risk, but it was not that risky.

Joe Jones: It did not feel that risky. Yeah. So that’s true for me. I brought quite a few cases with me. It was all that, all the cases that I had originated at my firm, I took them with me.

And so I had a good foundation to start on. Okay.

Steve Fretzin: But it doesn’t [00:06:00] make it less scary in, in a number of ways, in the sense that. You don’t have experience in the marketing of a firm, the administrative aspect of the firm, the finance, and the, the, all the processes that have to be established, the hiring.

So how did you get over that hump? Because that seems for most lawyers, like the biggest challenge I’ve got all this support and now I don’t.

Joe Jones: So I only had one employee. I hired a paralegal and I just looked for, I didn’t want to recreate the wheel. I looked for tools that made those things easy.

I got a payroll company and I think they charged me 15 bucks a month. And even though, my firm is not active, we’re not taking on cases right now. I still use it to make sure my taxes get paid and all that. ’cause I never figured out how to do that on my own. So I think there’s just so many tools out there that you can get that aren’t very expensive, that take a huge headache away from you.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Joe Jones: Scheduling was a big one. And I got, I use Calendly, I love it. And it, that solves so much of my problems. Getting those calls from clients constantly Hey, I didn’t get an update. I just [00:07:00] sent out a text message to every single client I had, and I said, anytime you want to talk with me, here’s the way to do it.

Just click here, schedule a meeting. And that just made it, made the phone stop ringing. Honestly. And then when I was having client meetings, I was able to be prepared for that meeting. I knew it was coming up. And so I had, their file, I just reviewed their file so that made life a lot easier.

Steve Fretzin: If you’re not taking a note on that, everybody, you’re making a big mistake. I cannot speak highly enough about auto schedulers and the argument that a number of other people have given me. Oh, you’re giving the client now the job of having to deal with your calendar and like you’re giving them the work, not the case.

I think what we’re looking for is of use on both ends. The back and forth that accompanies and the fact that you’re not taking these phone calls out of thin air, everybody wins in that scenario.

Joe Jones: Absolutely. And I found that my clients liked it. They were able to schedule meetings very easily.

These systems are very user friendly, so it’s a plus on both sides.

Steve Fretzin: And how did you know that you were an [00:08:00] entrepreneur? That’s not, is that something you knew from childhood up or is that something you figured out when you were at the PI firm?

Joe Jones: So my first entrepreneurial experience I would say that I can remember is when I was five and I was making like those little fold fan.

Like you take a piece of paper and you fold it 15 times and it makes a fan. Yeah. And I was trying to sell ’em to neighbors and like anyone that would buy ’em right for a dollar. And then, started my lawn business at 10 and borrowed money from my dad to buy my equipment. So I think I had that itch early on.

And then, yeah. But do you think

Steve Fretzin: Is it something we’re either born with or that we come up with? Are there, do you think that there are lawyers or do you know of lawyers who don’t have that entrepreneurial sort of spirit, but that really would be the best way for them to go? And how do the n if so is that, it’s like rainmakers.

Are they made or are they born? And I contend that they’re definitely made, and I think entrepreneurship may be the same way.

Joe Jones: I think especially in a, in the legal industry, I think we have so much proven demand, right? You’re not coming into an industry where you’re trying to create demand and [00:09:00] shake up the world.

There’s proven demand, there’s proven formulas on how to bring in the business. So if you’re a good lawyer and you wanna work for yourself. There’s definitely a way to do it, and I think that’s regardless of whether you’re an entrepreneur by heart or you’re just an aspiring entrepreneur that really wants to just have some more flexibility in their life.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, I would add, and this is selfishly adding this that ’cause this is what I do every day, but the idea that you’re able to get the confidence and the systems to generate business and feel that. You can push a button and get business in the door on a regular basis and not have the ups and the downs that accompany most lawyers at firms.

That confidence, I think, drives, in many cases people’s, ability to move firms or ability to move out on their own. ’cause they’re not concerned about where’s the money coming, where’s the business or money coming from.

Joe Jones: Absolutely. I think that’s the biggest fear, right? Is oh, what if no one’s calling?

What if no one knocks? Yeah. Phone

Steve Fretzin: stops. Yeah.

Joe Jones: Yeah. Exactly. But if you’re, yeah, and I think at the end of the day, networking is, anybody can go network, and it’s a, it’s [00:10:00] more of a challenge for some people than it is others. But everyone’s a little bit nervous walking into a room where they don’t know anybody and, but getting out and meeting people and building those referral relationships.

Is always a great way to keep the phone ringing.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. And there’s also, an element of risk and lawyers are notoriously risk averse. And to start your own firm, to jump ship and move to an unknown firm, to stop being a lawyer at a firm and starting a. A legal tech company, whatever it is, there’s risk involved in that.

How do you recognize and deal with risk and weigh that out? ’cause that’s, I think that’s a big problem, is like the risk might just seem too high for many lawyers to make the kinds of moves that you’ve made.

Joe Jones: So the way, the way that I’ve done it, the way that makes me comfortable in a well, relatively comfortable, in a very terrifying spot.

Is to have, contingent plans, right? So I have my plan A, I have my plan B, I have my plan C even when the small story. When we started stream, [00:11:00] settle, it is terrifying, right? Because this is something where we’re creating demand, we’re shaking it up. And and we knew that success is far out.

It’s not gonna be immediate, right? But when we did that, I, my son was watching YouTube and he had a microgreens. YouTube video came on where you can make $10,000 a month to sell a micro. So it’s okay, that’s my plan F, right? Just to have, and so I learned how to grow microgreens as a hobby and just has, have it as a backup.

Luckily that we never needed, but it was I think it’s good to have. A lot of contingent plans and and something to fall back on, and that gave me the confidence to be able to risk it all.

Steve Fretzin: Let me, you also may have, and tell me if I’m wrong, transitioned over a period of time, like you kept the firm, started the other company, and then transitioned once you got momentum or realized this is working or that I know that this will work, and then started to unload the f Is that the case?

That’s how it happened?

Joe Jones: Yeah, that’s correct. So my plan A was build a company over a course of a few months and then sell it for a billion dollars. And that just, that did not happen.

Steve Fretzin: That hasn’t happened [00:12:00] already.

Joe Jones: Okay. So that did not work. And I was like, but I’m gonna stay a trial lawyer.

I’m gonna keep doing that. And then I realized how demanding it is to start a tech company. Yeah. How much of my time was needed just on every aspect of the design and the development and all that. So at some point I had to make that decision of, hey, I’m gonna refer everything out and just focus on stream, settle.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. So how do you, what would you then advise lawyers to do who are interested in a legal tech startup or interested in, getting involved in other businesses so that they have a side gig or that they have maybe something that might turn into a full gig?

Joe Jones: My advice is, plan a lot first and do some reflection.

And if there’s a feeling in you that is growing that you want to do this and it is getting more and more, taxing on you that you’re not doing it, then that’s probably something you need to do. That’s probably a calling that you have, and if venture at the very least that you should go on. And maybe your purpose.

And so I suggest to listen to your gut [00:13:00] and it, everyone is scared. I think that everyone is scared to start a venture. It is terrifying. But if you have that in you, and it’s really, and especially if the status quo is feeling less and less fun in your life and less purposeful and meaningful, then that might be a really good sign.

Yeah. This is what you’re supposed to do.

Steve Fretzin: I also like the idea of, and what you did and what I did too, was. Get a little bit of evidence that something’s working and I, let’s start off with your, the transition that you know. We’re in your own law firm and then you didn’t just close it down and start this up, right?

You had a lag period to see is this gonna work? Is this something that there’s a need for a market for? And once you, I think got some evidence around that, that made it easier to make that transition. And I think people need to realize it’s not like you just stop doing something and start doing the other.

Cold Turkey necessarily, there’s a ability to maybe hang onto something. Like I didn’t just become the [00:14:00] lawyer guy overnight. I actually took about a year and a half to work with lawyers in addition to other businesses that I had been in 50 industries, to get that evidence and that proof and the belief that there was a market and that I could make.

A real dent in the community and make a real difference in the community. And then I started turning away the financial planner, turning away the website company and all the different things I was doing. So I think that’s, that takes away some of the risky and the scariness of it.

Joe Jones: Yeah, I totally agree.

There’s a lot of stuff that can be done. Market research, customer discovery. You can start doing those things before you shut down your primary gig. And and you start learning more about the company. We just went through an accelerator. Up in Des Moines, I think most of our, the people in the cohort were still had their full-time jobs.

So they’re still working their jobs while they’re developing these companies. Until they know, until they have enough verification from the market and whatnot, that yeah, this is a risk that we can jump. Head first into,[00:15:00]

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Tickets on sale now@pimcon.org. That’s PI I. CO n.org or just hit the link in the show notes. Your Climb to the top starts at PIM Con 2025. Let’s go from Good to Go.

Hey everybody, it’s Steve Fretzin as the, I’m the host of the Be That Lawyer Podcast, and if you’re serious about growing your law practice, let’s talk. I’ve coached hundreds of attorneys to build bigger books of business without selling, chasing, or wasting [00:16:00] time. This isn’t a sales pitch, it’s a real 30 minute.

Strategy session to explore what’s possible for you in your practice. Just head over to Fretzin.com and grab a time that works for you and let’s make this your breakout year. Another element of risk that I’d like you to talk about is the, like coming up with a concept and how do you validate a concept when you think I have a great idea.

I just came up with someone’s gonna steal this, but and maybe I’m sure it exists, but turn like I work with a company, my podcast, turnkey podcast. What about like turnkey law firm? Like I could do the sales and marketing. I bring in someone with the software I bring in someone that does that can help with the backend, right?

For hiring a VA or whatever. Just like a turnkey solution to get people into a solo. I just came up with that when you were. Talking about it. Yeah. But for me to do that, I’m not gonna do that ’cause I’m busy with my business, but but how would I validate that out? Like, how, what are some steps that you went through to make sure that you’re going in the right direction?

Joe Jones: So there’s a great book called the Mom Test that is so [00:17:00] great for idea verification. The name comes from, if you talk to your mom about your good idea. She’s gonna tell you that it’s a good idea. If you’re like, Hey mom, I’m thinking about building this. She’s gonna say, that’s wonderful, honey.

Steve Fretzin: Definitely. I noticed you didn’t say the dad test. My lawyer father he made a whole career out of crapping all over any idea I had. It was, he was the master of Devil’s advocacy. That was his job. He was great at it. Anyway, sorry.

Joe Jones: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. And so I think when you’re talking to the.

Talking to people about this idea, and I’ve had this happen to me even after I read the book. I had someone, tell me their app idea. They’re like, this is an app I wanna build. And in my head I’m like, oh my God, that’s just, that’s never gonna work like that. But how do you tell someone that? Yeah.

How do you tell someone who is so excited about their idea that it, that you really think it’s terrible? So the mom test, the whole fundamental formula behind it is. Don’t pitch your idea. Tell them, Hey, do you ever use this? So for example, I think one of the examples in the [00:18:00] book, he’s gonna build a grocery store checklist app or grocery store list app.

And instead of going, Hey mom, I’m thinking about building a grocery list app. Instead say, mom, how do you currently keep track of your groceries when you make a list? Okay, what if that list was on your phone? Would you use that? If there was an app that did that, and you go through the questions like that way she’s not rejecting you, she’s rejecting your idea.

And of course you want to talk to more than one person, you talk to a hundred potential customers. If you do it with that formula where you’re not pitching it as your idea, but you’re just trying to learn if they would use something like that, you’re gonna have a lot more reliable data.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah.

Joe Jones: Than if you didn’t.

Steve Fretzin: So you’re doing some data research, you’re making sure that the market’s there, making sure that the idea is valid. And the way that you’re running it across isn’t just, Hey, what do you think of this? You’re really taking the time to find out what people are actually doing. And by the way, I’m the jackass walking around Costco with a piece of paper.

You know for sure or an image I still like it, or a picture of the, even worse, a [00:19:00] picture of the paper on my phone, which I have to keep refreshing every two minutes because it goes black on me or whatever. That’s great. So I think that’s really important. And by the way, are there other people doing it?

Is it a unique idea that no one’s doing? And if that’s the case, why is that? Is that something I should be concerned about? Or is it flooded with, thousands of people doing it? And that should also be a cause for concern. So I think there’s a balance you gotta look for there as well.

Joe Jones: Yeah.

And those are the things that you might even lose if you’re not, if you’re following the wrong formula. ’cause people are even afraid to tell you about a competitor that they know of, right? So they might already use the grocery store list app that someone else made, but they’re afraid to tell you because it’s your idea.

But if you pitch it that way, hey, would you use, yeah, actually I already use one. And now you’ve just learned about a potential competitor, so

Steve Fretzin: Wow.

Joe Jones: That’s great.

Steve Fretzin: Great on a number of levels. Is there any. Difference in the nature of risk and path from building a law, going out and starting a law firm versus a startup legal tech company.

How is that different? Because I think there’s people that may be weighing out both [00:20:00] options. I think lawyers really love to stay in legal if they can.

Joe Jones: Yeah. The, what’s great about Lawyer is, being a lawyer and starting your own shop, I think is that you do have that proven demand. You have people that are gonna have cases that accrue today and tomorrow and yesterday.

And you’ve got, just a lot of potential market out there with a legal tech company. One issue is there already proven demand for our company? That was not. So that’s a huge hurdle and just getting past that. Right there, I think is a big one. But then the second one is just the longevity of it.

When I started my law firm, or when people start their law firms, this could apply to anyone, but on those cases you might be taking, PI cases that you won’t see a dollar on for two years. Or three years. But you can also do hourly work. You can also find stuff that will keep the lights on and the doors open.

In a tech company, you’ve got a long road of development ahead of you, and that’s after the market research and you gotta build your MVP, then you’ve gotta [00:21:00] find a way to create the demand. There’s a lot of barriers and hurdles, but it’s been fun and just getting through those.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, a big concern I have is.

There are, I went, was at the legal tech show in Chicago a few months ago or whatever it was, and it seemed like a lot of AI companies, and I get it like, now’s the time to jump in ai, now’s the time to lean into it. But in six months, is your business even relevant? Like the things that you’re doing in ai, either can be copied or could be replicated, or it could be totally obsolete so that, are you seeing any of that or concern about any of that for people that dive into that pond?

Joe Jones: That’s funny. So like when our company was first starting, I think that’s when chat GPT was just now, breaking into the market and it was the talk of the town at every conference every conference we go to, everything is about ai. Venture capitalists are writing huge checks to AI companies just ’cause they have AI in their name.

And at that point I was like, man, I wish we had some ai

Steve Fretzin: I’m thinking about Fretzin and AI just to get some cash in the door,

Joe Jones: we have a AI chat bot, we could

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, just put [00:22:00] that on your, on the cover, your label.

Joe Jones: But yeah, now we’re starting, and maybe you’re feeling this too, but now it starts to be, I think people are they’ve heard so much about AI and they use it the way that they’re using it. And what a wonderful tool that it is. But I think people are starting to go, okay, yeah, you’re not another AI company. And we’ve had customers say that as they approach our booth like, no AI. Yes. Nope, we’re not ai.

So that’s, it can be a positive now, but man is AI exciting? I mean it’s just, yeah,

Steve Fretzin: no, it is and I don’t talk about it very often, but, it was a huge part of what helped me create the book that you see behind me and this Be That Lawyer 101 top rainmakers was the ability for AI to help.

With the right prompting to take these amazing rainmaker interviews and truncate them down into, the, their essence of the value. What’s the value of what this rainmaker’s saying, or Joe, what you’re saying. I love the idea that I can take that and not have to edit it by hand, but just help me create something that I’ve already created.

It’s not from nothing, but it’s taking so much time and effort off the [00:23:00] table, just, doing what it does. Very cool. Let me ask you this kind of. A little bit winding down. How did the Marines help you in your entrepreneurial endeavors? What are the, what’s a lesson from the, from being in the Marines that you found really tracks well with your life and the way that you’re, the direction you’re going.

Joe Jones: I think one of the biggest things that Marines gave me is grit. I had grit from growing up, I played football as an athlete and all that. But have having grown men scream at you for 10 weeks waking up at five in the morning and every Yeah. It was OCS was really tough.

TBS was really tough. The leadership training that I got from the Marines was just amazingly invaluable. It’s where I learned service-based leadership. I think that’s huge, to lead to be a servant to your followers and not like demanding like a king, right? Yeah. And so it’s, yeah, it gave me a lot and made me the man that I am today.

Yeah. In a lot of ways. Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: I was never in the Marines, but I am raising a teenager, so I don’t know if [00:24:00] we should compare that as how I’m developing thick skin and grit, but I’m raising one

Joe Jones: too. I’m all

Steve Fretzin: right. So easier or harder than the Marines that’s, that remains to be seen maybe.

But mine’s going off to college in the fall and we’ll see how much grit he has. With that, let’s wrap up with our new-ish segment. Joe called Joe’s Big Mistake. What is something in your career that. Went backwards on you and you had to find your way through. And it’s a great lesson to share with the folks listening.

Joe Jones: Yeah. So I think one of the things that really got me that stands out is a loss, a trial loss that I had, and it was on a case that I cared more about than any other case that I ever litigated. And we tried that case and lost and it was like unbelievable to me. Yeah. And shocking to my soul. The win right outta you.

It did, and in retrospect, I just learned so much about myself through that process. I learned so much about or how to be a better lawyer, how to be a more effective lawyer. I don’t know if there’s anything I could have done to change the outcome of that, [00:25:00] but I know for a fact that my client.

Left that experience not hating me, but loving me for all that I tried to do, right? And so I think even with our losses, there’s so much to be gained. I don’t think there’s a better CLE in the world. Than losing a trial. Yeah. So much.

Steve Fretzin: The mistake, the mistakes that we, that happen, the losses that happen and that ultimately I think you’d agree, defines us as who we are and who we’ll become.

It’s not the wins.

Joe Jones: I agree. I absolutely agree. Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: Really fantastic. And let’s take a moment. Think our wonderful sponsors, of course rankings IO and PIM Con. Now here’s an announcement. No one knows I am gonna be. Presenting at PIM Con this year, the personal injury Mastermind conference in Arizona, in Scottsdale first class experience.

And I’ll be on stage talking about podcasting. So go figure. Thank you Chris Dryer for inviting me for that. And of course, the law, her podcast. You wanna check out Sonya with that, if people wanna get in touch with you, Joe, they want to hear, there are PI attorneys listening saying, Hey, [00:26:00] that stream settle sounds pretty sweet.

What are the best ways for them to reach you and learn more about your tech?

Joe Jones: So you can go to stream settle.com and create an account. There’s no cost or anything upfront. If you do that, I will definitely be reaching out to you to welcome you to our platform. You’re always welcome to email me at jJones@streamsettle.com.

I’m also on LinkedIn, Joe Jones. So love to connect.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah, you’re like a young Matt Damon in The Rainmaker. You ever see that movie? The Rainmaker?

Joe Jones: I love the Rainmaker.

Steve Fretzin: Oh,

Joe Jones: that’s a great,

Steve Fretzin: and you look at that movie and you’re like, Hey, I could be that. I could be in this.

Joe Jones: It was one of the things like when I was younger that I was like, I’d really like to do that.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. That’s, yeah, it’s probably my favorite. John Grisham. I’ve probably watched it three times as many as the firm and then the other ones he’s done. They’re all good, but that one for some reason really struck a chord with me. Didn’t get me into being a lawyer, but, that’s okay. Listen, man, thank you so much. This was great, and I, I feel like. Talking about entrepreneurship, talking about weighing risk and really thinking about the pulling out the entrepreneurial spirit that lawyers [00:27:00] ha that they can, that they may have inside of them is something truly special. And I just want to tell you how much I appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your wisdom, and just having an open and frank conversation about it.

It was really good time.

Joe Jones: Thanks Steve. Love being here, man.

Steve Fretzin: Yeah. Awesome. Awesome. And hey, thank you everybody for hanging out with Joe and I for a little bit and, really give, put this to, give some thought to this because you may be in a situation where it seems untenable, it seems mundane, it seems like maybe this is not what you were meant to be doing.

And, you get multiple chapters in your life and don’t just, suffer in silence. I think you can take some with the right people in your corner. And I know like Joey, like your wife is your partner, right? That’s right. We didn’t even talk about, that’s a whole other episode maybe. Calm down.

All right. I know if I had to work with my wife, it might be a murder suicide, but anyway, love you, honey. Anyway, thank you everybody. Take care. Be safe. Be well. We will talk again soon.

Narrator: Thanks for listening. To be that lawyer life-changing strategies and resources for growing a [00:28:00] successful law practice, visit Steve’s website Fretzin.com for additional information and to stay up to date on the latest legal business development and marketing trends. For more information and important links about today’s episode, check out today’s show notes.