Jennifer Gillman: How to Become a Happy Rainmaker Early

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss:

• Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practice
• Shifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibility
• Using small, consistent actions to compound business development
• Gaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker

Key Takeaways:

• Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth.
• A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection.
• Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results.
• Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control.

“If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million.” —  Jennifer Gillman

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About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University.

Connect with Jennifer Gillman:

Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:00]Hey everybody. Steve Fretzin here and welcome back to Be That Lawyer. We are the show for you guys to be that lawyer, confident, organized, and a skilled rainmaker. If you’re a long time listener, I just wanna take a moment to thank you. Um, your support has been incredible and, uh, we’re continuing to to, to, to do for you what we can to help you be that lawyer.

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:21] Um, if you’re new to the show, welcome, uh, you’re gonna wanna. You know, take notes and, uh, best you can if you’re driving, don’t do that. But, uh, you know, we’ve got the show notes and the transcripts and, and everything up on YouTube, so there’d be no problem for you guys to go back if there’s something that you missed.

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:35] I am absolutely super excited today for our guest. We’ve got Jennifer, who’s been. Uh, not only a, a very incredible strategic partner for me in, in my business, but she is helping lawyers all over the world, uh, get their act together and not only grow business, but find their place and the, the better place for them, uh, to thrive in a law practice.

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:54] So Jennifer, welcome to the show.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:00:57] Thank you so much, Steve.

Steve Fretzin: [00:00:58] Yeah. Good to have you back. And as we love to do, we’re gonna do our, uh, quote of the show. And this is a great one. I, I don’t know who said this, but uh, maybe you could tell us, um, maybe it’s something you said, but it it, the quote is, what other people think of you is none of your business, and I love it.

Steve Fretzin: [00:01:12] So tell us about that quote.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:14] That’s one of my favorite quotes. I went through a business program, a coaching, when I first started my company, and I thought that the coach was the one who said that, but it’s really the guy who wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul.

Steve Fretzin: [00:01:27] Mm, okay.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:27] It was in his success principles book.

Steve Fretzin: [00:01:30] Is that, uh, like a Campbell, is that name spelled? Yeah.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:32] Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: [00:01:32] Okay. Yeah. Sorry,

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:33] I couldn’t recall the name.

Steve Fretzin: [00:01:34] No, that’s all right. I pulled that outta the ear. I can’t believe I have a memory that could do that, but, uh, I think I have that book. I think I have that up on my shelf somewhere.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:41] Um, yeah, I’ve read it all the way through.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:01:42] It’s got great stuff. Um, but it’s got a lot of quotes that other people have repeated over the years. Okay. And I realize came from that book, but it just means like. When you’re gonna put a post on LinkedIn or do a speaking engagement or introduce yourself to somebody and you’re worried like, oh, will I look foolish?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:02:00] Or will somebody not? You know what? What other people think of you is none of your business.

Steve Fretzin: [00:02:04] Yeah. I think we spend too much time worrying about other people and what they think. And I think the other quote, and this isn’t quote, but I think it’s just standard, what people know is like. They’re not really thinking about you, like people think about themselves, they’re not as much as you think they’re gonna care or say something or whatever, what you’re doing.

Steve Fretzin: [00:02:20] They’re, they’re not, they’re just thinking about themselves. So, um, I think that’s a great quote. And so welcome to the show everybody. Jennifer Gilman, president of Gilman Strategic Group. Um, second or third time on the show. I’m trying to remember back. But you’ve been, you’ve been a guest. I

Jenifer Gillman: [00:02:34] think second, we,

Steve Fretzin: [00:02:35] we’ve been on a

Jenifer Gillman: [00:02:35] bunch of, uh, webinars together, but I

Steve Fretzin: [00:02:37] think second time on the show.

Steve Fretzin: [00:02:38] Okay. Well, we can’t count those. Come on, let’s count ’em. They’ve been, they’ve been shows. Uh, they’ve you’ve been on a panel. Yeah, but that still counts. Oh, maybe that was financial poise actually. So maybe it wasn’t. But, um, fantastic. Uh, give everybody a little, a little background on you and how you came to be and, and where you are today with, uh, the business, the new book, the whole thing.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:02:56] Sure. So I practiced law for 12 years and I was always jealous of the people with the corner office and the big book of business who had a little more pull at the firm. And then when I became a recruiter and started talking with the partners that I was helping find their next job for, I realized a lot of them are so, so miserable.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:03:17] And it was, it was disappointing to me. ’cause I figured once you got there it was wonderful. Right? Yeah. But a lot of them feel stuck and overwhelmed and, and they’ve given up too much. And so I thought I could change the legal industry one rainmaker at a time by finding them their right place. And, and it does work, but not fast enough for me.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:03:40] So we came up with the six pillars to becoming a happy rainmaker framework to give everybody some guidance about how to be successful and happy too. And, um, we’re just trying to get the word out.

Steve Fretzin: [00:03:51] Yeah. Yeah. I love it. One lawyer at a time. You and I both we’re just, we’re doing what we can to, I think not only help people directly in the form of, of recruiting for you and BD for me, but then, you know, by putting out great content and books and posts and pillars and all this stuff, you know, we’re really trying, I think, to impact the larger community.

Steve Fretzin: [00:04:11] Is that, is that part of your, part of your goal?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:04:14] Yes, I mean, I realize that I work, it’s so white glove and a lot of one-to-one, uh, conversations. It’s, it’s gonna take too long to reach every unhappy lawyer. So we’re putting out as much content as we can. And actually, um, just recently put out a book that’s written as a business parable.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:04:34] So it’s an easy read and a good introduction to the six pillars with a QR code that gets you to some extra resources if it’s something you wanna pursue.

Steve Fretzin: [00:04:43] Yeah, so I think, you know, Bob, the actual, the first parable that I read that really hit me was called the Goal, which isn’t, isn’t really about business development, it’s really about operations and it, and it really allowed me to understand like, how do you run a company from an operation?

Steve Fretzin: [00:04:59] And I didn’t read it because I was gonna run a company and, and. You have a conveyor belt with, you know, products on it. But I wanted to read a book that had a parable to understand it. And then Bob Berg obviously was the big player. My book, sales Free Selling, which was the first book I ever wrote was a parable.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:14] And I don’t know about if you felt this way, but really hard. Like I can write a how-to book really fast, like I write articles in like an hour. I can knock out a good article. But when you start writing dialogue and things like that, did you find that challenging?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:28] Yeah, I mean, definitely. But I’ve been telling the story of Bob BigLaw, Sam Solo and Susie Small for years.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:35] Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:35] Okay.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:35] And like little anecdotes at b and i meetings or other kinds of networking groups where not everyone was a lawyer, so they didn’t really understand and I was trying to personalize it for them.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:45] Mm-hmm.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:45] So I had. Story in the back of my mind, although I, I did have some help from my team.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:50] Yeah.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:50] And there was a lot of editing involved.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:05:53] Yeah.

Steve Fretzin: [00:05:55] I, I really struggled with it. I mean, my editor would come back to me and go, yeah, this isn’t, this isn’t, you know, a workable, you know, chapter. And I just, you know, writing dialogue for me was just like, like a foreign language. So. It took a while. That book took longer than I think all the others, you know, maybe combined to get done.

Steve Fretzin: [00:06:13] It just was, it just was a beast. But I like it because, you know, Dan, you know, um, uh, um, Scott, the, Scott, the coach, it’s me, but what’s, I call them Scott for some reason, and then, you know, having, you know, Dan the lawyer and, and the different, you know, characters and how they interact. And the question, I dunno, it just was, it’s, it’s just a different.

Steve Fretzin: [00:06:31] It’s just a very different beast. But, uh, so let’s, let’s talk a little bit about lawyers, if you wouldn’t mind. Uh, and that’s our, that’s our, our goal. Um, look, they, they need to learn how to be great lawyers. I don’t think there’s a lawyer that, that can argue that if you’re not a really good lawyer, it’s very hard to be successful.

Steve Fretzin: [00:06:52] But when should, when, in your opinion, should they really start thinking about business development and personal branding and getting going in that direction?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:07:01] It may not be the popular view, but I think from law school, I mean, I wish that I had heard from the dean, look to your left, look to your right.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:07:11] One of these people will probably be in a position to refer you business. Make sure you get to know them and keep up that relationship.

Steve Fretzin: [00:07:19] Yeah,

Jenifer Gillman: [00:07:19] because it would have. Spurred us to think about networking and developing those business relationships early on. I, I know a first year associate’s not gonna bring in IBM as a client, but you can keep up with the people you know from college and law school and get to know some people who are at your level and be helpful.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:07:40] And you don’t have to be asking people to hire you. You’re really just trying to develop those relationships.

Steve Fretzin: [00:07:47] If I was a young lawyer right now, whether I’m in law school or or first couple years out, I would be definitely keeping in touch with all those friends from college and law school, identifying the ones that you see great potential in like the knucklehead that was drunk every night that you know.

Steve Fretzin: [00:08:05] Is gonna end up in jail or whatever. Maybe not, but like, but the people that you see are striving to be great, that hustle like. Right. And I would also add two things. Um, become an expert at LinkedIn, like that would be a great skill to know in college and law school and, and, and then, and be ahead of the game and you come out.

Steve Fretzin: [00:08:24] And then the other one is, um, is ai Obviously right now, if you could start to figure out how to start automating things and how to start getting. You know, really comfortable with, with how to, you know, prompt and, and, and provide rules and get comfortable like that. I think that’s gonna give you a super edge right now in, uh, in, in building not only a law practice, but really kind of setting yourself up better for the future.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:08:46] I think that’s really great advice. My college Junior has very active LinkedIn profile. I wonder why. Good mama. There’s so much you can do with LinkedIn. Yeah. Even as a student, so that when you’re reaching out to people later, it’s not looking like you’re begging for a job. Yeah. Looking like a relationship that you’ve developed over time?

Steve Fretzin: [00:09:08] Yeah. I have to wait for my teenager. He’s a freshman in college to come to me and say, Hey dad, you seem to know a lot about LinkedIn. You know, what do, what should I, that may never happen, but if I said to him, I think, Andrew, that you should. Dad done. Done. That’s out. Right? Dad’s dad doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

Steve Fretzin: [00:09:24] So I’m, you know, he’s one of these great kids, but he’s gotta, he’s gotta kind of come up with things on his own, I think. Or hear it from another parent, maybe or another te from a teacher, then he’ll do it. Um, alright, so we, we need to, we need to start developing relationships early. Um, maybe you’re a couple years in, in, you know, are you able to go out and just start developing a book when you’re just two or three years in, or, or is that, is that unheard of?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:09:48] If you’re a rainmaker and you’re feeling like you’re on an island, you don’t have anyone to share your ideas with, solve

Steve Fretzin: [00:09:52] problems with, you’re gonna want to check out my rainmaker round tables, click the link below and learn more. I

Jenifer Gillman: [00:09:58] mean, some people can, I’m working with a candidate now who is only seven years out.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:10:03] Okay. And has over $2 million of business. Hello. So it’s possible. Yeah. It’s not generally what happens, I mean that the average second year associate isn’t bringing things in, but the average second year associate. Start building a brand. Yeah. Can start thinking about what kind of business development activities do I enjoy, what do I have an affinity for?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:10:26] What am I good at? And start working it into their schedule on a repeatable basis. And you know, you can’t do all your business development on December 31st for the year. You have to put it on your calendar, you have to stick with it and get some help from your firm. Most firms have some marketing personnel that could really steer you in the right direction and do some of the legwork.

Steve Fretzin: [00:10:48] Yeah, so I love it. It’s, um, you know, the other thing is I think a young lawyer, uh, should be thinking about the we, not the I, meaning that. You, you open up a door with a friend of yours or you open up a door with your uncle who owns a company and maybe you go with, you know, one of your senior partners, right?

Steve Fretzin: [00:11:07] And you do it together. You may or may not get any credit for that from a standpoint of origination, but from a standpoint of adding value to the, to the firm and starting to get experience and. Getting into a, some form of a, of a habit of thinking about business development as a part of your life and your job.

Steve Fretzin: [00:11:24] Not as an afterthought or not, when you’re 20 years in. Um, and don’t feel like you’re alone. I think that, that a lot of lawyers feel like they can’t do it because they’re only two years out and who’s gonna listen to them and, and they’re not well then. Yeah. But you’re a part of something. You’re not, you’re not necessarily on your own.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:11:40] I agree with that wholeheartedly. You know, the psychic credit that you build up, the goodwill at your firm is what propels you to partnership later on or to getting some marketing dollars and resources invested in you and, and, and what I tell a lot of the more junior people who wanna first start out.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:12:00] You can talk to the people who are at your level. The people who are more junior at the client may change jobs two or three times before you make partner, and they may be in a position to refer work to you at some point. And sometimes just going places and trying to be helpful helps. So if everybody’s talking about.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:12:18] How they need a good college counselor for their kids. And you’re the one who actually goes back to the office, gets the contact information and emails it to them an hour after the event. They remember that you had follow through.

Steve Fretzin: [00:12:31] Yeah, so, so it’s a lot about it is, is not only developing relationships like we said, you know who’s to your left to your right.

Steve Fretzin: [00:12:38] But I think it’s also to your point. And in the Go-Giver and what you and I, I think preach and practice daily is how are we not only being memorable, but I think what makes us memorable is our ability to give and to help. One of the concerns lawyers have is like, I don’t know anybody. How am I gonna help?

Steve Fretzin: [00:12:54] So how do we circle that square?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:12:57] Well, I mean, depending on whether you like people or you’re a little bit more of an introvert, you can choose activities. I enjoy networking ’cause I love meeting people. I love being in rooms with people. It gives me energy.

Steve Fretzin: [00:13:09] Mm-hmm.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:13:10] But you know, there are people who find that to be the last thing that they would wanna do.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:13:15] And you can build a network online. You can build a network by writing an article and having it published. You can. Call one client, take one person to coffee. You don’t have to be in a room full of people. Yeah. But for those of us who enjoy people, you can think of how to go to a conference in your area of expertise and get to know people if you go year after year.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:13:39] Maybe put in an RFP to be a speaker there. Maybe, you know, you get a lot of gravitas if you’re the one on stage speaking. And you know, just really being where the people you wanna meet are helps. You can’t be handing out your business card and asking them to give you, you know, a new case.

Steve Fretzin: [00:13:59] Yeah.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:13:59] But you can be somebody that they say, oh hey Steve, how are you?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:14:03] It’s nice to see you again. And you have to think about laying the groundwork for that. Ahead of time.

Steve Fretzin: [00:14:10] Yeah. And then I’ll throw in on top of that, which I wholeheartedly agree with is. Think about not necessarily how you can give them business, because as a young lawyer, that’s gonna be challenging. Like you don’t have your own clients.

Steve Fretzin: [00:14:21] It’s hard to, you know, you know, necessarily give someone a matter. Right? But you know that they wanna meet CPAs, you know, they wanna meet financial planners. You know that they wanna attend events. And if you can somehow include them in your network, and hopefully young lawyers are thinking about building their network wide.

Steve Fretzin: [00:14:38] So they know a lot of people and they’ve got different types of professions covered. And then once you’ve built that out wide, you know, then obviously you’re looking to also draw it, draw it down deep with specific strategic partners. But one of the ways we develop strategic partners is by giving and adding value and trying to be, so whether it’s a college counselor.

Steve Fretzin: [00:14:57] Or, or a therapist or, or just some, some personal connection. A handyman handy person, right? Or is it that you are giving them a matter or connecting them with a strategic partner? Those are all ways that, that we help. I have a networking event that I run every month and. It’s only an hour, but I’ll invite people to come in and, and, and, and you know, lawyers to come to, hey, come and meet these other people, these other lawyers that are gonna be attending.

Steve Fretzin: [00:15:23] And it’s all about giving. And people walk away with two or three good connections and people that want to throw them work and all kinds of stuff. And you know, I’m not making a direct introduction, but I’m really kind of bringing them in to meet 10, 15 people. Which could lead to, you know, and does lead to con connection.

Steve Fretzin: [00:15:37] So I think to your point, like, you know, knowing people, yes, giving to people and starting to build your reputation as a giver, you’ve, you’ve done very, uh, really well with that.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:15:47] Well, I’ve tried to develop my network, as you said, very wide, because I wanna be able to solve everyone’s problem no matter what it is.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:15:55] Yeah. So I only work with rainmakers who are looking for a better platform for one reason or another. I talk to all kinds of people, whether they’re lawyers or not, and I try to steer them in the right direction and give them some resources or some introductions because I wanna be able to say, you need a travel agent, I have one.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:16:15] You don’t wanna be a lawyer anymore and you need a career counselor. Here’s somebody I highly recommend. And, you know, I I, I often recommend, um, business development coaches because sometimes there are lawyers that don’t know where to start. Yeah. I mean, we, we can give them some advice, but sometimes working one-on-one with someone like you is, is a little bit easier than getting started on their own.

Steve Fretzin: [00:16:37] Yeah. Hey everybody. Do you ever wonder why top executives and athletes are so successful? It’s typically because they have a coach, someone that is looking at them from the outside to identify their gaps, identify their potential. That’s what I do. I’m Steve Fretzin and I’m here to help you be that lawyer.

Steve Fretzin: [00:16:53] If you’re interested in a free consultation, click the link below and we’ll get together and we’ll identify where you can make improvements

Jenifer Gillman: [00:16:58] to be that lawyer.

Steve Fretzin: [00:17:00] That’s, yeah, we’re gonna, we’re gonna shave some years off of, uh, the whole figuring it out yourself kind of routine. And, and I do, I do encourage lawyers to become, and I, you know, I’m saying this ad nauseum maybe, but like, to be a student of the game, to read your book, to read my books to, you know, to, you know, get on YouTube and start watching, you know, videos.

Steve Fretzin: [00:17:18] I learn a lot about. Smoking meat and about a new car that I may want to buy or about, um, how to use AI from watching YouTube videos. That’s kind of how we learn. I need to fix something in my home and I’m not a very handy person. I’ll just put that out there. Um, I think my wife even said, should we get the handyman to change that light bulb?

Steve Fretzin: [00:17:37] I was like, I can change our light bulb. Are you, you know. Come on, gimme a little bit of credit. Um, but ultimately, you know, that’s how you know lawyers can really start getting engaged in the mindset and in the actual practical side of business development. Once somebody has gotten past, you know, 3, 4, 5 years, how do you talk to them about really leaning in to get to that first million?

Steve Fretzin: [00:18:03] Because I think you and I both know. That recruiters are looking for that million dollar mark. That’s sort of the sweet spot of how lawyers can control their destiny and really have that freedom and independence. And there’s a lot of lawyers that aren’t there yet. A lot of lawyers that aren’t there yet that that, but that’s sort of their goal.

Steve Fretzin: [00:18:20] How are you helping to, to help them or how are you helping them to kind of drive to, to, to start thinking about that kind of a number, that kind of a book?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:18:28] Well, I, I think that is a book. Very packed question. You, you mentioned watching YouTube videos. We’ve created the Happy Rainmakers video series.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:18:39] They’re six minutes each, and it’s. Rainmakers who have made it sharing business development advice. Yeah, I think you did some for us. We’ve got some experts helping you with different things, so if you wanna learn about that, you know, we’ve got a YouTube channel for that. In terms of getting to that first million, you’d be surprised.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:18:58] There are some firms that don’t require a whole million dollars from somebody who’s an up and coming person, so you shouldn’t feel disqualified entirely. And then there are other firms that used to look at a million that are looking at three or four or 5 million as all everybody’s rates are getting so high.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:19:15] Mm-hmm. And inflation is happening. So there’s not a magic number that is good for every firm. But when you’re trying, you know, I always say if you can develop $1 of business, you can develop a million dollars or $10 million. It’s getting over. The, the mindset of I can’t, I’m not a rainmaker, I’m not a business developer.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:19:35] And once you do it once, you have to think back to how it happened and replicate those activities and talk to more people who are like that client or like that referral source. And try and look at the ROI of the activities you’re engaging in your firm likely gives you. Some kind of marketing budget.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:19:54] You wanna use it wisely. If you go to the same conference every year and you’ve never gotten even a nibble from it, but it costs thousands and thousands of dollars, maybe after a a bunch of tries, you wanna dedicate that money to something else. If there’s something, there’s one networking group that’s really great, double down and try and.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:20:16] Create some extra activities with that, set up some extra meetings with those people, find another group that’s like that. It’s really a matter of refining your approach as you collect more information.

Steve Fretzin: [00:20:27] Yeah, well that’s, and I think that’s where systems come in, having six pillars, having, you know, I talk about planning and process and performance improvement because I think whether you’re looking to be a great chef, athlete, business developer, anyone that has a plan, good processes or systems.

Steve Fretzin: [00:20:45] In a way of then making improvements, sort of hard to fail. Um, I would say organization, if you’re not organized and you don’t like, have a way of figuring out how to man, manage and master your time. And then lastly, I would say consistency. I think if it’s just random acts of this and random acts of that, it’s gonna take you a long time.

Steve Fretzin: [00:21:03] But if you can. Produce, you know, an hour a day, two hours a week, whatever it is, as long as it’s consistent. You just, you, you, you know, how, how are you, you know, um, posting on LinkedIn, just as an example. Oh, once every quarter, once whenever I feel like it. No, you’re posting once a week and then twice a week and then Right.

Steve Fretzin: [00:21:21] And getting better at it as you go. Those are all the things that are gonna allow someone to grow a career. Um, and what’s your take on the career difference between. The service partner and the rainmaker from, I mean, we, we understand they’re all busy. We understand their stress in both, in both scenarios, but how are you seeing people’s mindsets different between the service partner and a rainmaker?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:21:46] I think that experience of being a service partner versus a rainmaker is like night and day. That is the reason I tell every lawyer, no matter how junior, that you really should understand the business of a law firm and understand how to develop your own clients. Mm-hmm. Because as a rainmaker, you bring in the matter.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:22:07] You decide who gets staff to the team, you decide when to schedule the first meeting. You decide on most of the deadlines, and it doesn’t have to be when your kid’s school play is on. You know, you can make sure that you go on that vacation or make it to that doctor’s appointment. Or get home for that special event in your family’s life.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:22:26] But if you’re a service partner, it’s very hard to say no. You’re at somebody else’s mercy on the time all the time. So when they schedule a meeting and it’s in the middle of something, it’s really hard to say no very often. And you know, to your point, you said, if you can figure out a way to spend an hour a day or two hours a week on business development, I would say.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:22:49] That when you’re first approaching it, even if you could carve out 20 minutes a week Mm. If you could do anything at all, some very small activity that is done consistently builds like compound interest. Yeah. And then, you know, the neural pathway is form in your brain and you’re like, what? When I post on LinkedIn once a week, I’m getting all this engagement.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:23:09] Maybe I’ll try it twice a week. Yeah. And, and you’re more likely to wanna do it. When you develop a habit, but I would much rather see a lawyer spend, you know, 15 minutes a week than not at all, because that 15 minutes leads somewhere.

Steve Fretzin: [00:23:24] Yeah. Really brilliant. And, and spot on. And, and I, you know, I’m talking with, um, lawyers every day, uh, some that are looking to, to build that half a million to million dollar book, some that have multimillion dollar books and.

Steve Fretzin: [00:23:39] I’m very blessed that I get to talk with, with ambitious people that, that are willing to talk to me or willing to call me and have that conversation. Many, many aren’t. Um, because they’re just scared of what it means. It means more work. It means time away from the family. It means these things. And what I try to explain to them is when you have a plan and when you have systems, and when you learn business development and time management at a high level, you actually get a lot, you get more time, right?

Steve Fretzin: [00:24:03] You have more control, more time, but you have to, you have to make an investment right, to in yourself. To get those skills in place so that you can be efficient with your time. And that’s a, that’s a tough pill to swallow because people are just overwhelmed most of the time. So, um, how, let’s, let’s wrap up with, with one more question, which is, how do you coach or talk with lawyers who wanna build a book of business or are in the process of building a book of business, but are feeling that stress of the billable hour and the time crunch and the pressures they’re, that they’re facing every day.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:24:37] Well, I, I have to acknowledge that they’re correct. They do have a lot of stress and they are working a lot of hours, but this is an investment in your career and your future. This, you know, all that other work is for the firm, for somebody else’s clients. This work is for you and it’s. You know, taking a few minutes now when you’re a little bit tired and you’d rather do something else, is an investment in not being measured by the sheer number of hours you can bill and collect on later.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:25:04] Once you become more of a rainmaker, you’re bringing in revenue by bringing in clients and by the hours you work. So people are a lot less focused on that hours number and you get a lot more of your time back.

Steve Fretzin: [00:25:17] Yeah. You know, it’s similar to having the time to read a book or workout or prepare a meal versus ordering fast food.

Steve Fretzin: [00:25:25] Like you have a choice to make, you know, do you wanna do things in a way that’s productive for your life, or do you wanna do things that, that, that might be more challenging or take ’em more time, but. You know, are you just gonna stay the course and, and eat that Snickers bar and kind of like, you know, crunch through it every day, day after day.

Steve Fretzin: [00:25:41] Um, so a lot to think about everybody with this. Um, I have one more question for you, Jennifer, and you knew it’s coming. What’s Jennifer’s big mistake?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:25:49] Well, I, I have to say I have two. When I was still a practicing lawyer, my biggest mistake was I didn’t think I could become a rainmaker and I didn’t try, and I wish I had known you and had read your books because I might have had a different career when I was still practicing law.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:26:05] And my biggest mistake now is not having started my company sooner. I was working with someone else and there was some friction just like. Lawyers are working in the wrong environment and every day there’s friction and stress and it’s hard to achieve what they want to, and then they finally move and say, oh wow, this is so much better.

Steve Fretzin: [00:26:25] Yeah,

Jenifer Gillman: [00:26:26] I knew it was time to go out on my own, but I thought I was an English major. I can’t be a business owner and you can do anything you put your mind to.

Steve Fretzin: [00:26:35] Yeah. So yeah, the lesson is, the lesson is sometimes we just have to have a little bit of a leap of faith and, and trust ourselves and, and, uh, and good things happen, right?

Steve Fretzin: [00:26:43] I mean, I think when I started my business, I was just about to get married. We had just bought a house. We had sold, sold our condos. Like, you know, there was just, I, you know, I was, you know, unemployed for that time before, you know, so like all this stuff was happening, but. You know, you just have to have some, uh, have some confidence and make some, some decisions.

Steve Fretzin: [00:27:03] But, you know, also do your research, right? Like, know what you’re, what you’re walking into, really, really great. So let’s take a moment. Just thank our wonderful sponsors, lawyer.com. We’ve got rankings io, amazing all of them. And then Law, her podcast with Sonya. So, uh, check those all out in the show notes, everybody.

Steve Fretzin: [00:27:19] Alright, Jennifer, this is your big chance. Tell us about, um, how people get in touch with you, and most importantly, um, how do they get your new book?

Jenifer Gillman: [00:27:27] Sure. So we have a very built out website@gilmanstrategicgroup.com. You can find all of the six Pillars, resources, and links to all of those videos I mentioned and the happy rainmaker there.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:27:41] You was written as a business parable because I am Bob Berg’s biggest fan and I’ve read the Go-Giver probably 50 times. It’s a slim short novel that you can read on any plane trip you take just. Tuck it into your carry on and learn something.

Steve Fretzin: [00:27:57] Yeah. And read that right after, uh, the Happy Rainmaker, right.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:28:02] Yes.

Steve Fretzin: [00:28:02] Okay. Just second. Just second. Um, and people can find you on, you know, LinkedIn. Your website is

Jenifer Gillman: [00:28:09] Yes, I post on LinkedIn, um, several times a week. We try to give a lot of really good content. There’s, um, a landing page for the happy rainmaker book.com, but you can buy it on Amazon and wherever you buy your books.

Jenifer Gillman: [00:28:23] And, um, the audible will be released soon for those of you who wanna kill two birds with one stone and work out and listen at the same time.

Steve Fretzin: [00:28:31] So buy the book, give it a kind review. Five stars, great comments. And uh, as long as you’re doing that for Jennifer, also, you know, for this podcast, give us a kind review, give us some stars and let’s, uh, let’s spread the word.

Steve Fretzin: [00:28:43] We’re, we’re, Jennifer and I are all in on helping attorneys to be that lawyer, confident, organized, in a skilled rainmaker. Thank you Jennifer. And thank you everybody for hanging out with us. Um, and, uh, be safe, be well. And guess what? We will talk again very soon.

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